bjjp

in filipino you have differnt types of forms.now i would like to know if any body has heard of the form rising sun.

haumana2000

The only rising son I know of is when Lolo smacks you on da head wit a stick, brah over and over, yet you still get back up, trembling, biting your lip, but too proud to do anything but. That my friend is the RISING SON.

do dat ten times a day for twenty years, you may not have any brains left, but you'll be an ass kicker

__________________
Tenei te koorero mo te wa
rapua i te mea ngaro
"search for what is missing, hidden, stolen"

johnzag

Pretty Interesting concept the idea of forms in filipino martial arts ... I know that they are there but does anyone actually spend considerable time on them.

banyuhay

yes, its usually done before the dance.

johnzag

Seriously though I know that when the Spanish suppressed the filipino's and prohibited them training openly that they hid a lot of their techniques inside dances which they could openly practice. But today is there a real emphasis placed on forms within the filipino martial arts framework?

haumana2000

Forms.
ok, on the serious tip. There are hidden movements within the moro-moro stage plays, the komedya, the sinulog, and sayaw dances. As most Southeast Asian countries dance including martial dance holds a rich tradition. Specifically, the Langka lima, langka kuntaw, and langka silat dances. Auntie Dolly Banzon who I believe runs the Philippine American Association of colorado in denver, is originally from davao, and about two years ago we brought her in to talk in depth and show us the movements of these dances. beautiful and graceful, yet a clear martial flavor. There are also a lot of weapon based dances as well, one that my uncle Jo' showed us, had a kalasag with little bells on it and blade, in which he would tap the shield with the blade, as danced from a very low crouch. but i dont remember what it was called. Now as far as "FORMS" from the traditional asian standpoint, I know that San Miguel has forms, as does doce pares and presas style. How much emphasis??? well not sure. Forms I believe are different than ammara though which is strung together "warm up" exercises that teach you to manipulate the stick, while building wrist strength and flexibility. then some would argue that carrenza or shadowbxoing could be a "form". so.... its up to personal interpretation i guess.

__________________
Tenei te koorero mo te wa
rapua i te mea ngaro
"search for what is missing, hidden, stolen"

haumana2000

Forms.
ok, on the serious tip. There are hidden movements within the moro-moro stage plays, the komedya, the sinulog, and sayaw dances. As most Southeast Asian countries dance including martial dance holds a rich tradition. Specifically, the Langka lima, langka kuntaw, and langka silat dances. Auntie Dolly Banzon who I believe runs the Philippine American Association of colorado in denver, is originally from davao, and about two years ago we brought her in to talk in depth and show us the movements of these dances. beautiful and graceful, yet a clear martial flavor. There are also a lot of weapon based dances as well, one that my uncle Jo' showed us, had a kalasag with little bells on it and blade, in which he would tap the shield with the blade, as danced from a very low crouch. but i dont remember what it was called. Now as far as "FORMS" from the traditional asian standpoint, I know that San Miguel has forms, as does doce pares and presas style. How much emphasis??? well not sure. Forms I believe are different than ammara though which is strung together "warm up" exercises that teach you to manipulate the stick, while building wrist strength and flexibility. then some would argue that carrenza or shadowbxoing could be a "form". so.... its up to personal interpretation i guess.

__________________
Tenei te koorero mo te wa
rapua i te mea ngaro
"search for what is missing, hidden, stolen"

Paco

Doce Pares has forms. PTK, which is one of the systems on which FCS kali is based, also has the "64" and "largo" forms (there's also the "36" empty hand form).
I was never into forms until I got older and, having a job, got home tired so that I couldn't exactly do a full cardio session, or my buddies (who also are married) have their responsibilities so they can't train and do drills with me. That left the forms. You can do them as slow or fast as you want. Combine them with "amarra" and "karenza" exercises and you can end up with a pretty intense workout just doing forms.

banyuhay

regret to say that today theres no emphasis on forms cause they probable dont know the great importance of the forms especialy when we are talking
of Martial Arts.
Remember it is an ART. If you are not doing the right FORMS what you are
inclined now is not a Martial Art.

What is the most deadliest and effective Martial Art as of today?
The Martial Art with emphasis in FORMS. FORMS that are created in accordance to the LAW. Ask those in authority of the Arts if they knew it.
Iam looking for the REAL MASTER.

haumana2000

I maintain that what even constitutes a "form" is decidedly up to the individual. Forms must follow law? sorry brutha can u clarify for me?
The great thing about our native arts has always been the flexibility not often found in other asian arts. ( i.e despite the fact that I was not taught the super secret monkey grabs the peaches form, if I swing my stick every day, fight often, and understand distance and timing that I can still fight effectively. The traditional tribal method of teaching has always been the difference between the societies of the japanese feudal system, and chinese emporers compared to ours. The traditional tribal society didn't have time for sacred scrolls, but raw fundamentals, and basics spattered with proven "tricks" of elder members, older brothers and other fighters, that you would take and meld into your own. A barangay of 15 longhouses, and a couple banka, had to be able to pick up any tool at hand and fight, women included. Forms can be a beautiful and valuable training aspect of any art, In fact I have taught Filipino and Pacific Island dance for years, but that doesnt mean it's the only way....

amuyin mo ako.

__________________
Tenei te koorero mo te wa
rapua i te mea ngaro
"search for what is missing, hidden, stolen"

banyuhay

What you think is true then follow it. If yours are benificial to you then
continue.
Huwag mo akong paniwalaan dahil haka haka lang yan.

RedBagani

You didn't mention the basis for your statement or by what authority you make your claim. There were people who taught in the Philippines who NEVER did forms or included these in their teachings. These include Antonio Illustrisimo (Kali Illustrisimo), Jose Caballero (De Campo), Ben Lema (Lightning Scientific), Anciong Bacon (Balintawak) and others; yet they are recognized as REAL MASTERS. In fact, it is well-known that fixed forms such as those found in Modern Arnis & Doce Pares came about when sports arnis developed. It was not an integral part of traditional FMA in general.

bjjp

well where i train,we train hard of prefecting the forms and in filipeno it is flowing, in other words loose and and our bali's a couple we go very slow.or in red dragon it is a fast pace form.

RedBagani

If I may ask, bjjp, what arnis style do you train in & where? Here in the Philippines, the only guys who take forms training seriously are those who compete in forms competitions. Training here focuses more on drills, development of attributes, physical conditioning & sparring. We laugh at anyone here who claims that an FMA style that does not have forms is not a REAL martial art.

haumana2000

I dont think that in the PI Pinoys would be as inclined to affix names such as red dragon
rising sun etc.. but rather anyo's by numerical order.

I am not familiar with your style, so cannot comment on it however.

Good luck, and red bagani, thank for the input.

__________________
Tenei te koorero mo te wa
rapua i te mea ngaro
"search for what is missing, hidden, stolen"