knuckledragger

Hello! I saw the first Dog Brother tape and saw top dog swinging iron bars to make his strikes more powerful(and also because that if you can whip a 10 lb bar around like he does you could pick up just about any weapon and use it effectively). I was wondering if anyone else here works out with bars and whether or not you hit a heavy bag or a tire: do you think its good to train on a heavy bag?

darthmorton

Hello,

This is a very good topic and one that is often neglected. For myself, I work out with 5 different sticks (strictly for training purposes):

1. 12 pound clubs (found in Indian Wrestling training)

2. 5 pound pipes (these are galvanized steel pipes that have been filled with sand) 32" long and 3/4" in diameter.

3. 2 pound pipes (again galvanized steel pipes, but hollow) 27" long 3/4" in diameter

4. 1 1/2 pound pipes (galvanized steel) 24" long 1/2" in diameter.

5. Rattan sticks (the old faithfuls)

I have found the pipes to be very important and also if you work with plumbing pipes (like I do) they are very inexpensive. In fact, my pipes cost less than any wood sticks I own and they are custom cut!

I think the really important aspect of this sort of training is not getting too used to one particular weight or one particular size. Very the weights and your body will learn to adapt to anything you pick up. Remember your body usually takes three weeks to acclimate to any particular movement or weight, so mix it up.

I also have similar training for knives, staffs, swinging weapons, and swords.

I hope this helps.

-DarthMorton

quietanswer

keep in mind, too, that using heavy weights really doesn't teach you to use something heavier. what it teaches you is proper form, because your muscles aren't supposed to be carrying the heavy weight. my work outs with a steel pipe, crwobar, and heavy chunk of rebar have made me more graceful in my technique, but not more muscle-driven. that's something my teacher would tell me, when i'd grab a long heavy sword from the live blades locker. he'd say "don't use your muscles, dwayne, use your sword".. and i'd think "thanks a lot, buddy, you're telling me a lot".. but i began to see what he was saying, after enough practice. i realized there came a point where the weight of the weapon would do the work for me, and all i had to do was guide and direct it...

i'm all for iron bar training.. but i think it teaches one to give up his muscular strength in fighting rather than develop it.

another thing. try using an earth grip on a heavy weapon sometime. i have found that if i find myself wielding a crowbar in combat, i'm going to use the reverse hold.. gravity holds your weapon for you, and it becomes like a child's swing.. very easy to flip it out.. try it sometime. remember braveheart? that massive sword? wallace fought in a reverse grip.. i understand why now..or think i do.



any thoughts?

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St Louis MMA Club for Boxing / Clinch / Grappling Training
www.stlouistrainingcircle.com

darthmorton

Hello,

Dwayne, you are right on the money. Being sensitive to the inertia of various sizes was really what I was talking about. Thanks for clarifying that point.

The fact is that if all fighting was about was muscular power then no one would ever study fencing. They would just bench press 400 lbs and call it a day.

Really what the heavier and longer weapons teach you is body mechanics. When you are weilding a 12 lb club, you can't fight it. Anyone who has done this for any length of time knows that if you do fight with it, you have a 99% chance of developing tendonitis over time. How many power lifters do you know that have had a productive career longer than 10 years?

The truth comes from the manipulation of the energy of the weapon to attack/cover/parry any angle without wasted motion and excess energy.

Thanks,
Darth

P.S. But then again, when "Lyle Alzado on PCP" takes your weapon from you...don't tell me his muscles have nothing to do with what comes next! or yours for that matter. Let's not play into the whole hard vs. soft fallacy.

quietanswer

i'm with you on your lyle alzado scenario. i wasn't trying to cross strength off as a useful attribute. i was more just trying to mention that the user of an iron bar shouldn't look so much to develop strength from the exercise, rather energy-feel and learn to let the sword work itself... we're in agreement, though, either way.

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St Louis MMA Club for Boxing / Clinch / Grappling Training
www.stlouistrainingcircle.com

mark fox

I train in a style of kune tao. I used to use titjios (sai) that my father made out of cold rolled steel,each weighed 8lbs. I did this early on in my training,then moved on. Good training.

Chad W. Getz

I like and also do the iron bar swinging.

__________________
Chad W. Getz
Full Contact Hawaii - http://www.fullcontacthi.com
Stickfighting Digest - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stickfighting

The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up. The clinching arts imply the clinch can stop the striker from striking, and the grappler from taking it to the ground. The weapon arts imply the they can stop the unarmed man. A complete martial art implies any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere.

straitup

hi i would just like to add somethings to the posts that everyone has got on this toppic. If thats all right. I'm new to this so i don't know much about posts. I beleave that adding exta wieght to any tipe of trainning like all of you is verry good, not only for the factor of changing things up but for the beneficial asspects of doing this. I always tell my students that by changing the wight that they use they not only learn how to contol what it is that there using but by doing this they will learn a copple of other things as well.

1 they will learn about momentum of the weapon as well as of there boddy.

2 they will learn how power changes with other weights and how they can delivered power though it differently with each weight.

3 it will also help them with there movements as well as with their stances.

4 I also lit them know that with changing the weight of something they now change what part of their body they use to generate power, speed, and control with. ( lets face it with out either one of these 3 things the weapon that were trainning with is useless.)

5 this is the last thing that i let them know is that by changing the weight of the weapon it will also change the persons balance.

These are the 5 things that I let and encourage my student to learn from when they change the weight of the weapons that they train with. I beleave that if you understand these 5 things then you'll be able to understand the princeables of any weapon on mater the weight.

two sword

They are both great methods of training. In Atienza Kali we do alot of heavy weapon training. The main thing is to remember to prevent jamming of the joints. If you can let the back power of the heavy weapon flow smoothly from wrist to elbow to shoulder to hip and dissipate it in your footwork you are generating as much power as you can.

I have been doing heavy weapon training for almost 17 years an it has aided my power tremendously.

Just as long as there is no jamming of the joints you should be able to do this exercise for years. I've done heavy weapon training with the most heavy weapons but never really needed to go any heavier than a weighted baseball bat or a heavy sword.

Heavy bag training is also great..teaches you how to focus your power into half an inch or gives you great resistance training.

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Guro Carl Atienza
Atienza Kali
www.atienzakali.com

loyalonehk

Sijo Emperado used to train with 4x4's with tapered down handles. If you can use the heavier stick effectively, then ratan will move like lightening. Personally I have several sticks all of varied size, weight and lengths. Short sticks for Serrata, Longer sticks for Kaboroan as well as escrima/kali sticks measured from armpit to finger tips. A student of mine gave me an old steering shaft from a toyota, with cloth tape on the one end it makes a great forearm and wrist builder... Training on heavy bags is good but can often result in a torn bag... A suggestion is to build 3-4 posts from ground to ceiling out of large diameter pcv pipe, wrap with carpet padding and duct tape. You can save your bags with this low cost tool and practice moving from one to the other and between. Train stong to remain strong... Dog Brothers Rule.... FYI Sled Dog has his roots in Kajukenbo too...

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Kajukenbo "Emperado Method"
Prof. Harpers- East Coast Branch
Jacksonville, NC.
Sifu Webster
"When we weave the weak strands of our lives together, a rope of great strength is created."