The Ultimate in Martial Arts

contra tirsia · 11-02-2005, 03:36 AM

Hey!guys

you discuss anything,do not involve the name and repution of
pekiti-tirsia. don't tell about pekiti-tirsia is from sayoc. I want
to answer this messege, I will challenge play live blade, will see

whose the best art. you can contact me my e-mail. contradas@hotmail.
com, big mouth doesn't mean he can eat enemy. we pekiti-tirsia we
don't want heard discussion. only action the blade is flat the
sticks is round make your choice. come to philippines neutral place

this special messege is belong to harley. sorry guys we're not joking

contra tirsia · 11-02-2005, 03:41 AM

Hey!guys

you discuss anything,do not involve the name and repution of
pekiti-tirsia. don't tell about pekiti-tirsia is from sayoc. I want
to answer this messege, I will challenge play live blade, will see

whose the best art. you can contact me my e-mail. contradas@hotmail.
com, big mouth doesn't mean he can eat enemy. we pekiti-tirsia we
don't want heard discussion. only action the blade is flat the
sticks is round make your choice. come to philippines neutral place

this special messege is belong to harley. sorry guys we're not joking

Airyu · 11-02-2005, 06:34 AM

Hello Contra Tirsia,

Incredible that you found this thread from several years ago and resurrected it. Why? Members of SKSTA have nothing but the highest regards for GT Gaje, and Pekiti Tirsia. So I don't know why you are trying to start a feud but could you elaborate on your post?

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

Sun_Helmet · 11-02-2005, 09:10 AM

I personally visited GT Gaje's seminar last summer in Maryland right before they broke for lunch to pay respects, and say hello from Sayoc Kali. He was friendly and cordial. I also made a point to shake many hands of all the PTK practitioners there, as well as Manong Inosanto who was a guest. We encouraged many Sayoc students around the Maryland area to support GT Gaje's seminar, and saw many of our guys there. I left after saying hello and felt good seeing for myself that our Sayoc guys supported the seminar.

So there's no animosity towards PTK.

It's essential for all Filipinos to be able to get away from the Spanish trap of having a Divide and Conquer mentality. This trait is what always held the culture down and how we end up cutting our own legs from underneath us. The best way to get ahead was to take another Filipino down, that has so far NEVER worked for the people nor the art.

A challenge between individuals from any system does not represent a system, it represents that individual. Same as any words written on the internet or forums. Don't take it to heart - they are but words.

We are in the modern world, where Filipinos and FMAs are making great strides in all aspects of business, entertainment and tactical areas - our future rests in not allowing anything from outside to deter us from our goal of representing the people and the culture in a positive manner. A single person's pride for their art is great, but not when it pulls the rest of their people's accomplishments down. That's no longer pride, but ego.

And ego can be a cancer.

The way to impress the world is to SHOW that Filipinos can escape the installed Divide and Conquer mentality, and use their skills for the betterment of their student's and culture's way of life.

I believe that was shown last summer when Sayoc students supported GT Gaje at his seminar in the States. Some may say that the neutral ground is really mutual RESPECT, and not allowing the fringe to affect everything the core have worked for.

Filipinos were always intelligent and of an advanced nature in terms of adapting to the new. Our only weakness was that our unchecked bravado which brought us up from despair, has also been the bane of our success as a whole. Today, the real challenge is to learn the lessons from the past, and not allow egos to swell beyond their capacity to grasp the true goals of FMA.

FMA is the modern interpretation of our ancestor's struggles, their distant dreams of how their son's sons would cope with surviving the harsh world. Success in ALL aspects of the word. To reduce it to some concept of "whose style is best" is really a small dust mote to what FMA is all about. That was the invader's conceit to separate the tribes.

--Rafael--
Sayoc Kali
"Not the past, but the future"

kaliace · 11-02-2005, 01:09 PM

Amen.

Respectfully,
Michael G Olive
www.rattanclub.com

contra tirsia · 11-05-2005, 04:04 AM

hillo!guys

first of all I want to say,regards to everybody I don't involved any
politics of FMA,if you understand fully what is the filipino culture,
do not make any subject of descussion that wiill affect the emage
of the culture and the tradition of FMA.

if you don't want somebody will react and throw a challenge pls..
do not insult other system,for your information pekiti-tirsia kali
follow the culture and the tradition of filipino.pekiti-tirsia is more than
100 years already,why harley talking about pekiti-knife system is
from sayoc? if they want we settle a fight live blade here in the
philippines.

pls nextime do not do that....

regards

Sun_Helmet · 11-14-2005, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by contra tirsia

pls nextime do not do that....

regards

1. Consider that Guro Harley's post was over FOUR YEARS ago (when he just STARTED Sayoc Kali)

2. So many more POSITIVE efforts have been shown towards PTK and GT Gaje from MANY representatives of Sayoc since and before.

3. Guro Harley has NOT posted ANYTHING since 2001, and it is now 2005...

The blade has long rusted, and the stick has split.

Time to move forward, not backwards.

Gumagalang,
--Rafael--
Sayoc Kali
"Not the PAST, but the FUTURE!"

marcdscott · 11-14-2005, 02:07 PM

Why can't we just say that the Sayoc family trained in PT, took what they learnt and tailored it for themselves transforming it into something new and different, that something new and different being Sayoc Kali.

That is one of the pivotal difference I see between Filipino arts and other Asian arts. In Chinese and Japanese arts for example lineage is everything, you need to have an identifiable lineage to be taken seriously, in FMA instead it is the opposite, people rarely want to discuss lineage instead they often claim to have completely developed the system in a vacuum when we all know that rarely happens.

contra tirsia · 11-15-2005, 01:52 AM

the simple things is,what ever people say,sayoc he was train in pekiti-tirsia
before with grandtuhon...what else

Sun_Helmet · 11-15-2005, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by contra tirsia

the simple things is,what ever people say,sayoc he was train in pekiti-tirsia
before with grandtuhon...what else

Thank you for bringing this up.

Tuhon Sayoc has never disputed his time with GT Gaje.
It is there on film.

In fact, it is one of the POSITIVE points of Sayoc Kali.
Here's why:

Consider that Tuhon Sayoc had trained in PTK in a LESSER time period, than Guro Harley's post has been on this very forum (> four years)!
Imagine that.

Tuhon Sayoc therefore utilized ALL his previous FMA mentors' advice (ranging from Inosanto to Canete, etc.), life experiences and continues to evolve Sayoc Kali.

Thirty plus years later, Sayoc Kali has since garnered positive worldwide attention and acclaim, in all aspects of tactical, entertainment and martial arts fields.

It speaks volumes about Tuhon Sayoc's talent, teaching methods and the evolution of Sayoc Kali.

So yes, Tuhon Sayoc considers GT Gaje a mentor and influence.

However, credit must be given towards the deeds accomplished by Tuhon Sayoc and Sayoc Kali since. We all evolve from when we were teenagers, to becoming a man and transitioning to our later age.

Perhaps, if we all focused on our own positive accomplishments and goals, less time would be spent dwelling on things long solved and buried.

If we all furthered our horizons and pushed the boundaries, we will be up to the REAL challenge of achieving what our ancestors fought and shed their blood for.

Here's to PTK and Sayoc students future contributions to the FMA, and the Filipino people long after we are all gone.

We must ask ourselves, "Where do I want to be four years from now, ten from now?"

Hopefully, not adding to this long dead thread.

Gumagalang,
--Rafael--
Sayoc Kali
Not the PAST, but the FUTURE!

roz · 11-30-2005, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley

Hello Guys,
I'm sorry i haven't posted in a few days, i've had students from out of town that took all my time. Man, there's alot of good questions, and some not so good comments, going on out there.
As we have discussed before, Sayoc students are not limited to carrying so many knives, there are many subsititues that work just fine.
as for Tuhon's fees, yes they are expensive, but as pointed out, they are the going rate for seminar instructors.
What does Sayoc have that is better than Vunak? Well, vu is a student of Guro Inosanto, Guro Inosanto is now a student of Tuhon Sayoc, to quote Guro Inosanto "Sayoc kali simply has stuff our system dosen't, on a scale from one to ten i'd rate it a ten".
Projectiles are a form of entry, and are very effective. and you don't have to throw one at a time!
as for specifics, well it's kinda hard to explain a tech, on the web ya know? i really wish i could, i mean, i'm sold on it and would love to share more but this is a limited forum ( meaning how to express it ).
I know the stuff on the Sayoc site seems like pretty confusing and dry reading, trust me, it's not that way in real life, lol.
Can you really pull them off? yes, almost everything they do is in "real time", that's one of Tuhon's main rules, it has to be done in real time.
some people don't just let you hit them, no kidding? lol. we don't expect them to, we don't want them to, that would take all the fun out of it! that's the point isn't it, to have fun.
I'm not saying that all other stuff out there is useless by any means. My point in this post was to address the history behind the connection to Pekiti Tersia and Sayoc kali, not degrade any one else's system or belittle anyone else's skill. I am not trying to convince anyone else to train with Tuhon Sayoc or study his system, quite frankly the fewer people who know this system the better for me!lol. As for being rich to train in the sayoc system, i teach Sayoc at my school for free. i don't charge a dime for the class. students may attend a seminar but are not forced to.
the drills only seem complicated when first introduced, like sumbrada seems hard when first introduced, but the progression is effective and easy to learn. i have an eight year old kid and a eleven year old in my sayoc class, if they can learn it,well surely you big mean martial artist can.
I know i missed alot of posts, sorry, but i have tried to address a few things here. Again, i'm not trying to convince anyone to believe what i'm saying,i'm just very excited about the system and the results i get with it and thought i would share it with you guys. You seem to have serious questions, concerns and seem like a solid group of dedicated martial artists, so i thought the comments, tips, and suggestions might be appreciated.
Harley

what does Sayoc have that is better than Vu?
Vu is a student of Inosanto, and Inosanto is a student of Sayoc.
Harley,What a comment! so what you said in this past thread, is under your belief then, Sayoc had more to offer than Inosanto, or Vu, in this field.Hmmm.
in todays time is your thoughts still the same?were you not a student of Inosanto first, and were you not a student under Faye, which is an instructor under Vu, and Inosanto.please correct me if wrong, but i thought C.Sayoc was a student of Inosanto also?

Airyu · 11-30-2005, 01:58 PM

Hello Everyone,
Wow this is certainly the thread that will not die!

Roz- If you have not trained with Tuhon Sayoc or a certified Instructor of Sayoc Kali, it is easy to see things that may be similar to other FMA's. In fact all FMA's share many similarities. You should train for a time in Sayoc Kali and see what it has to offer. Mr Vunak has great material, Manong Insanto has great material. It is not about who is better, but who will be able to teach you in a manner that you can progress. Train and have some fun!

Gumagalang
Guro Steve

Sun_Helmet · 11-30-2005, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roz

what does Sayoc have that is better than Vu?
Vu is a student of Inosanto, and Inosanto is a student of Sayoc.
Harley,What a comment! so what you said in this past thread, is under your belief then, Sayoc had more to offer than Inosanto, or Vu, in this field.Hmmm.

Everyone is entitled to their own personal opinion on what knife system benefits them most. Harley was actually QUOTING Manong Inosanto ABOUT Manong Inosanto's opinion of Sayoc Kali.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roz

in todays time is your thoughts still the same?were you not a student of Inosanto first, and were you not a student under Faye, which is an instructor under Vu, and Inosanto.please correct me if wrong, but i thought C.Sayoc was a student of Inosanto also?

Harley's post was many years ago, so he may not be reading this forum any longer, but I believe Guro Harley studied under the late Terry Gibson, and I'm positive he continues studying under Manong Inosanto at the present.

You might want to ask Harley at his Warrior's Way Texas forum for a direct answer.

The excellent outlook of Manong Inosanto is that he will study material that he finds worthwhile regardless of age or lineage... and he has done so with Tuhon Sayoc in the past. Tuhon Sayoc in return has always thought of Manong Inosanto as his elder and another of his mentors.

One can maintain both viewpoints, and since ego is not part of the equation, there's no conflict at all.

Sayoc Kali advocates cross training with ANY system or instructor out there that a student wants to. Therefore, if a Sayoc student finds Mr. Vunak's material worthwhile, then they should train in it! In the same vein, if another Sayoc student finds that another way suits him best, then so be it... it is all about what the student considers the best path for themselves.

--Rafael--
Sayoc Kali

EmptyneSs · 12-01-2005, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by contra tirsia

Hey!guys

you discuss anything,do not involve the name and repution of
pekiti-tirsia. don't tell about pekiti-tirsia is from sayoc. I want
to answer this messege, I will challenge play live blade, will see

whose the best art. you can contact me my e-mail. contradas@hotmail.
com, big mouth doesn't mean he can eat enemy. we pekiti-tirsia we
don't want heard discussion. only action the blade is flat the
sticks is round make your choice. come to philippines neutral place

this special messege is belong to harley. sorry guys we're not joking

this guys pretty cool. he is straight up threatening to pull a blade on u guys lol.

Pinoy_moy · 12-01-2005, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmptyneSs

this guys pretty cool. he is straight up threatening to pull a blade on u guys lol.

Isn't that Tuhon Gaje's nephew, Rommel Tortal?

11-02-2005, 03:36 AM	#76 (permalink)
contra tirsia Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	messege Hey!guys you discuss anything,do not involve the name and repution of pekiti-tirsia. don't tell about pekiti-tirsia is from sayoc. I want to answer this messege, I will challenge play live blade, will see whose the best art. you can contact me my e-mail. contradas@hotmail. com, big mouth doesn't mean he can eat enemy. we pekiti-tirsia we don't want heard discussion. only action the blade is flat the sticks is round make your choice. come to philippines neutral place this special messege is belong to harley. sorry guys we're not joking

11-02-2005, 03:41 AM	#77 (permalink)
contra tirsia Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	messege Hey!guys you discuss anything,do not involve the name and repution of pekiti-tirsia. don't tell about pekiti-tirsia is from sayoc. I want to answer this messege, I will challenge play live blade, will see whose the best art. you can contact me my e-mail. contradas@hotmail. com, big mouth doesn't mean he can eat enemy. we pekiti-tirsia we don't want heard discussion. only action the blade is flat the sticks is round make your choice. come to philippines neutral place this special messege is belong to harley. sorry guys we're not joking

11-05-2005, 04:04 AM	#81 (permalink)
contra tirsia Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	re messege hillo!guys first of all I want to say,regards to everybody I don't involved any politics of FMA,if you understand fully what is the filipino culture, do not make any subject of descussion that wiill affect the emage of the culture and the tradition of FMA. if you don't want somebody will react and throw a challenge pls.. do not insult other system,for your information pekiti-tirsia kali follow the culture and the tradition of filipino.pekiti-tirsia is more than 100 years already,why harley talking about pekiti-knife system is from sayoc? if they want we settle a fight live blade here in the philippines. pls nextime do not do that.... regards

11-15-2005, 01:52 AM	#84 (permalink)
contra tirsia Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	re the simple things is,what ever people say,sayoc he was train in pekiti-tirsia before with grandtuhon...what else

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11-02-2005, 06:34 AM	#78 (permalink)
Airyu Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 234 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello Contra Tirsia, Incredible that you found this thread from several years ago and resurrected it. Why? Members of SKSTA have nothing but the highest regards for GT Gaje, and Pekiti Tirsia. So I don't know why you are trying to start a feud but could you elaborate on your post? Gumagalang Guro Steve L.

11-02-2005, 09:10 AM	#79 (permalink)
Sun_Helmet Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 222 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I personally visited GT Gaje's seminar last summer in Maryland right before they broke for lunch to pay respects, and say hello from Sayoc Kali. He was friendly and cordial. I also made a point to shake many hands of all the PTK practitioners there, as well as Manong Inosanto who was a guest. We encouraged many Sayoc students around the Maryland area to support GT Gaje's seminar, and saw many of our guys there. I left after saying hello and felt good seeing for myself that our Sayoc guys supported the seminar. So there's no animosity towards PTK. It's essential for all Filipinos to be able to get away from the Spanish trap of having a Divide and Conquer mentality. This trait is what always held the culture down and how we end up cutting our own legs from underneath us. The best way to get ahead was to take another Filipino down, that has so far NEVER worked for the people nor the art. A challenge between individuals from any system does not represent a system, it represents that individual. Same as any words written on the internet or forums. Don't take it to heart - they are but words. We are in the modern world, where Filipinos and FMAs are making great strides in all aspects of business, entertainment and tactical areas - our future rests in not allowing anything from outside to deter us from our goal of representing the people and the culture in a positive manner. A single person's pride for their art is great, but not when it pulls the rest of their people's accomplishments down. That's no longer pride, but ego. And ego can be a cancer. The way to impress the world is to SHOW that Filipinos can escape the installed Divide and Conquer mentality, and use their skills for the betterment of their student's and culture's way of life. I believe that was shown last summer when Sayoc students supported GT Gaje at his seminar in the States. Some may say that the neutral ground is really mutual RESPECT, and not allowing the fringe to affect everything the core have worked for. Filipinos were always intelligent and of an advanced nature in terms of adapting to the new. Our only weakness was that our unchecked bravado which brought us up from despair, has also been the bane of our success as a whole. Today, the real challenge is to learn the lessons from the past, and not allow egos to swell beyond their capacity to grasp the true goals of FMA. FMA is the modern interpretation of our ancestor's struggles, their distant dreams of how their son's sons would cope with surviving the harsh world. Success in ALL aspects of the word. To reduce it to some concept of "whose style is best" is really a small dust mote to what FMA is all about. That was the invader's conceit to separate the tribes. --Rafael-- Sayoc Kali "Not the past, but the future"

11-02-2005, 01:09 PM	#80 (permalink)
kaliace Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Missouri Posts: 113 Groans: 2 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Amen. Respectfully, Michael G Olive www.rattanclub.com

11-14-2005, 02:07 PM	#83 (permalink)
marcdscott Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: SoCal Posts: 7 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Why can't we just say that the Sayoc family trained in PT, took what they learnt and tailored it for themselves transforming it into something new and different, that something new and different being Sayoc Kali. That is one of the pivotal difference I see between Filipino arts and other Asian arts. In Chinese and Japanese arts for example lineage is everything, you need to have an identifiable lineage to be taken seriously, in FMA instead it is the opposite, people rarely want to discuss lineage instead they often claim to have completely developed the system in a vacuum when we all know that rarely happens.

11-30-2005, 01:58 PM	#87 (permalink)
Airyu Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 234 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello Everyone, Wow this is certainly the thread that will not die! Roz- If you have not trained with Tuhon Sayoc or a certified Instructor of Sayoc Kali, it is easy to see things that may be similar to other FMA's. In fact all FMA's share many similarities. You should train for a time in Sayoc Kali and see what it has to offer. Mr Vunak has great material, Manong Insanto has great material. It is not about who is better, but who will be able to teach you in a manner that you can progress. Train and have some fun! Gumagalang Guro Steve

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