Stick Fighting - Page 2

haumana2000 · 11-29-2007, 11:09 AM

great response good post and well put

MasterKaliSilat · 11-29-2007, 08:16 PM

Ok, the real deal, as I've heard it from the mouths of many masters in the Philippines. Do many ways to accomplish the necessary response needed. We call it muscle memory. For example, the head gear is best used to train with first by learning how not to be hit. After that step further in, use one against another with head gear, but stress not being hit in the practice, one then the other. Target practice is important by the way, and we are moving. Two head gear, four had pads, elbow, knee and cup if hard control contact, control, well sometimes, if you done the work first without any gear, see if you can hit my head, see if I can stop you is more important. Variety is not the spice of life but the very gist of it. Work it until you can make every answer, then stop your opponent, remove his/her weapon, throw'em to the ground before they know what happened, and finish. It's quite simple really, when you practice all ways to stop an opponent that knows how. Someone that don't know, it just to easy. Watch out for those Pekiti Tirsia guy though, they too know whats going on.

Why I remember a guy that couldn't hold his stick, after 9 months, stopped me once, after 18 months stopped me repeatedly. Now we don't drill, we only spar, with control, but you get hit and sometimes you get hurt, up to and including death. In Doce Pares, they told me, Greg it's nice your here, we want to train you, but we don't want you to die, it could happen, {eveyone laguthing but me} but you could die.

So in practice, we don't aim for hands, elbows, knees or head, but guess what? They do get hit. Moral. Target practice is the necessity of being able to hit your target, or stop your opponent too when you get to the three PT drills, that's what you are examining, remember muscle memory, it's like the lankas in Pencak Silat, as Suryadi Jafri, Grand Pendakar Emeritus, always said too, "It's simple, if you don't stop them, they stop you.", circa 1977 If you know how to practice, practice some more. If not, well it's typical amongst those that really don't share. It was GM Diony Canete that said, the Filipino must share if we are to contineu to remember our culture and grow." circa 1979. We're better then you atticute, I call it atticute, because your attitude is well cute, but you can't hold your stick and you blame me.

So, what to do, well it reminds me of a story I head in Rio awhile ago by a friend, nice guy, gracious, intelligent, and into mixed martial arts and many methods of practicing, like in what we term Doce Methodos, boxing, and kali and silat. And he works hard at reality. Stop me or I stop you, period, and I quote. "If you can't hold your stick, blame someone else." he continued, "Yeah I know this guy that came home and found his wife with another man having sex on the sofa, he screamed at his wife, "THIS IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN," He shouted!" and, "I'M GOING TO THROW AWAY THE COUCH!" But, it's atfer all not about holding your stick, it's only about can I stop you. I remember one day I caught someone's stick in Sarasota, he was hitting really hard, hurt my hand got sore, but I caught his weapon, and ready to hit him he became trapped, ehhh, may be was just trying to impress the girl. But he stepped in, so I hit him some more. And I remember he really.................well, that's another story. Practice you get it, when necessary hit hard but don't waste your energy, or you may have to throw out the sofa, to prove your point.

lorenzodamarith · 02-18-2008, 08:00 PM

hello,

bigboywasim? what did you decide? how are things going for you?

thanks

bigboywasim · 02-18-2008, 09:14 PM

Right now I am still going there but after I finish my final semester in school I am going start start going to a new place where they spar with sticks. They train like the dog brothers but not as intense and have better head gear then a fencing mask.

lionleo · 02-19-2008, 03:49 PM

safety and intensity are a good combo Bigboywasim..hope you'll find your spot soon..good luck to you.

lionleo · 02-19-2008, 03:49 PM

found the clip on you tube..the last part...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p89uGc7qdU

MasterKaliSilat · 02-24-2008, 04:53 PM

Sparring is a fundamental of all martial arts to understand the skill level you have and what you can do. to get there you must get to the level of real contact sparring, if you practice with sticks, fight with sticks, if you practice with knives, spar with knives, get to understand fully life and death if you are in military or security you will go to the top level in necessity of your life.

Rarely will you be able to do whatever is necessary in a real situation unless you practice for real. Mostly you will or can be hit first, according to people I know that live that danger every day. A retired police officer I knew fortunately saw the barrel before approaching the car and pulled his shotgun out first.

The awareness you get from real fighting practice is really necessary, you can be aware all the time, and in reality you may still be hit first if awareness escapes you even momentarily, it can be the beginning of the end incredibly fast.

So sparring is a must, minimal gear is also a must, real sticks are a must. If you work or believe in practical security or military training you'll want to use live weapons as well. Even guns with rubber bullets, will get you to the next level, it's the only way to survive if you what's real.

At the martial artist fighting level you will learn from continued practice and if you practice correctly (some gear, real hitting) you will find what's your ability and skill, your weakness and strong points, without it you won't be fully aware and that can get you killed. Practice until you find your way, never follow, lead first, confidence is a mind game, contact is skill.

The most important part of this reply is truly your needing to know yourself for who you are, inside and when you are ready, you will know. When I get to someone of greater skill level I don't complain you took my stick, if I lost my weapon, I take the lesson instead.

So don complain if you train in martial arts, if you're just going to complain because you lost your stick, don't loose your head, practice first, everyday, 3 hours, before work, three hours after work, this is the code of the martial artist, everyone else is just a hobbyist.

It's not technique, because there's never enough of it, put away your fear, having done the work when it's time you will see it work for you, without hesitation, without thought and the chore is done.

anewsome · 06-17-2008, 07:42 AM

I was just wondering about this topic the other day. How does this impact regular training?

ltindiandaeng · 06-17-2008, 11:45 AM

I teach stickfighting in school in Thailand and also do not have much sparring with sticks.There are farmers who lately have had all their crops stolen by bandits,which is a tragic thing obviously for them as this is their entire income and food supply.But law states they can only defend land with sticks,though to be honest they all have knives and machetes as tools but are not supposed to carry them for weapons.If these guys get injured there is no sick leave or timeoff so I try very hard not to have injuries.And I do believe they have learned valuable lessons even without sparring with the sticks.However,this being said,I do believe it is better to learn stick fighting,or any fighting for that matter,with sparring than without.However I do understand your instructor's method and am not disagreeing with him .

Kali_Warrior · 07-03-2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William

My first response would be to look elsewhere if you are really interested in the FMA's. Why?

You've got to test the tools.

Anyone who remembers me from the earlier days here knows I'm an advocate of full contact, real stick, minimal gear sparring. There is no way you will ever figure out what will really work, and work for you personally if you don't get out there and test it out in real time. Heavy armor tends to breed bad habits. As my guys always hear me say: "Pain is a good corrector of bad habits".

William

Very good points...

Off subject... Do you really like Golden Sabres??? Stick with the Hydra Shocks or Rem + P...

DonKey · 07-03-2008, 06:34 PM

The Corbon DPX, Federal HST, Winchester Ranger T series, and the Speer Gold Dot are the newer generation hollow point rounds.

some reading on why these are good choices over older designs

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

sorry for the hijack

Kali_Warrior · 07-04-2008, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonKey

The Corbon DPX, Federal HST, Winchester Ranger T series, and the Speer Gold Dot are the newer generation hollow point rounds.

some reading on why these are good choices over older designs

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

sorry for the hijack

No problem.. Very nice article, very informative about hollow rounds.. One thing.. I am sure you know, it all depends on your weapons as to what will work/ give you the best shot from your gun.

Hydras, gold dots and +P work best in my HK USP .45 ... What do you shoot?

11-29-2007, 11:09 AM	#16 (permalink)
haumana2000 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 307 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	great response good post and well put __________________ Tenei te koorero mo te wa rapua i te mea ngaro "search for what is missing, hidden, stolen"

11-29-2007, 08:16 PM	#17 (permalink)
MasterKaliSilat Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 156 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ok, the real deal, as I've heard it from the mouths of many masters in the Philippines. Do many ways to accomplish the necessary response needed. We call it muscle memory. For example, the head gear is best used to train with first by learning how not to be hit. After that step further in, use one against another with head gear, but stress not being hit in the practice, one then the other. Target practice is important by the way, and we are moving. Two head gear, four had pads, elbow, knee and cup if hard control contact, control, well sometimes, if you done the work first without any gear, see if you can hit my head, see if I can stop you is more important. Variety is not the spice of life but the very gist of it. Work it until you can make every answer, then stop your opponent, remove his/her weapon, throw'em to the ground before they know what happened, and finish. It's quite simple really, when you practice all ways to stop an opponent that knows how. Someone that don't know, it just to easy. Watch out for those Pekiti Tirsia guy though, they too know whats going on. Why I remember a guy that couldn't hold his stick, after 9 months, stopped me once, after 18 months stopped me repeatedly. Now we don't drill, we only spar, with control, but you get hit and sometimes you get hurt, up to and including death. In Doce Pares, they told me, Greg it's nice your here, we want to train you, but we don't want you to die, it could happen, {eveyone laguthing but me} but you could die. So in practice, we don't aim for hands, elbows, knees or head, but guess what? They do get hit. Moral. Target practice is the necessity of being able to hit your target, or stop your opponent too when you get to the three PT drills, that's what you are examining, remember muscle memory, it's like the lankas in Pencak Silat, as Suryadi Jafri, Grand Pendakar Emeritus, always said too, "It's simple, if you don't stop them, they stop you.", circa 1977 If you know how to practice, practice some more. If not, well it's typical amongst those that really don't share. It was GM Diony Canete that said, the Filipino must share if we are to contineu to remember our culture and grow." circa 1979. We're better then you atticute, I call it atticute, because your attitude is well cute, but you can't hold your stick and you blame me. So, what to do, well it reminds me of a story I head in Rio awhile ago by a friend, nice guy, gracious, intelligent, and into mixed martial arts and many methods of practicing, like in what we term Doce Methodos, boxing, and kali and silat. And he works hard at reality. Stop me or I stop you, period, and I quote. "If you can't hold your stick, blame someone else." he continued, "Yeah I know this guy that came home and found his wife with another man having sex on the sofa, he screamed at his wife, "THIS IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN," He shouted!" and, "I'M GOING TO THROW AWAY THE COUCH!" But, it's atfer all not about holding your stick, it's only about can I stop you. I remember one day I caught someone's stick in Sarasota, he was hitting really hard, hurt my hand got sore, but I caught his weapon, and ready to hit him he became trapped, ehhh, may be was just trying to impress the girl. But he stepped in, so I hit him some more. And I remember he really.................well, that's another story. Practice you get it, when necessary hit hard but don't waste your energy, or you may have to throw out the sofa, to prove your point. __________________ Warm Regards, Greg P. Greg Alland, Executive Director, Author, Producer, Lecturer World Kali Silat Society MasGuru @ KaliSilat.org Instructor Program July 2-6th NYC & Sept 12-16, Va. Beach, VA our 7th year coming March 13th, 2009. Please visit: [url]http://KaliSilat.org and our store for DVD information & myself in NY, NY (917) 535 KALI (5254) or Master Ocampo in VA. FilipinoEducator @ yahoo.com

02-18-2008, 09:14 PM	#19 (permalink)
bigboywasim Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: California, Sacramento Posts: 390 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Right now I am still going there but after I finish my final semester in school I am going start start going to a new place where they spar with sticks. They train like the dog brothers but not as intense and have better head gear then a fencing mask. __________________

02-19-2008, 03:49 PM	#20 (permalink)
lionleo Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Sugarland Posts: 196 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	safety and intensity are a good combo Bigboywasim..hope you'll find your spot soon..good luck to you. __________________ http://kidlatarnis.tripod.com www.youtube.com/kalikilat

02-19-2008, 03:49 PM	#21 (permalink)
lionleo Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Sugarland Posts: 196 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	found the clip on you tube..the last part... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p89uGc7qdU __________________ http://kidlatarnis.tripod.com www.youtube.com/kalikilat

02-18-2008, 08:00 PM	#18 (permalink)
lorenzodamarith Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 365 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	hello, bigboywasim? what did you decide? how are things going for you? thanks

02-24-2008, 04:53 PM	#22 (permalink)
MasterKaliSilat Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 156 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sparring is a fundamental of all martial arts to understand the skill level you have and what you can do. to get there you must get to the level of real contact sparring, if you practice with sticks, fight with sticks, if you practice with knives, spar with knives, get to understand fully life and death if you are in military or security you will go to the top level in necessity of your life. Rarely will you be able to do whatever is necessary in a real situation unless you practice for real. Mostly you will or can be hit first, according to people I know that live that danger every day. A retired police officer I knew fortunately saw the barrel before approaching the car and pulled his shotgun out first. The awareness you get from real fighting practice is really necessary, you can be aware all the time, and in reality you may still be hit first if awareness escapes you even momentarily, it can be the beginning of the end incredibly fast. So sparring is a must, minimal gear is also a must, real sticks are a must. If you work or believe in practical security or military training you'll want to use live weapons as well. Even guns with rubber bullets, will get you to the next level, it's the only way to survive if you what's real. At the martial artist fighting level you will learn from continued practice and if you practice correctly (some gear, real hitting) you will find what's your ability and skill, your weakness and strong points, without it you won't be fully aware and that can get you killed. Practice until you find your way, never follow, lead first, confidence is a mind game, contact is skill. The most important part of this reply is truly your needing to know yourself for who you are, inside and when you are ready, you will know. When I get to someone of greater skill level I don't complain you took my stick, if I lost my weapon, I take the lesson instead. So don complain if you train in martial arts, if you're just going to complain because you lost your stick, don't loose your head, practice first, everyday, 3 hours, before work, three hours after work, this is the code of the martial artist, everyone else is just a hobbyist. It's not technique, because there's never enough of it, put away your fear, having done the work when it's time you will see it work for you, without hesitation, without thought and the chore is done. __________________ Warm Regards, Greg P. Greg Alland, Executive Director, Author, Producer, Lecturer World Kali Silat Society MasGuru @ KaliSilat.org Instructor Program July 2-6th NYC & Sept 12-16, Va. Beach, VA our 7th year coming March 13th, 2009. Please visit: [url]http://KaliSilat.org and our store for DVD information & myself in NY, NY (917) 535 KALI (5254) or Master Ocampo in VA. FilipinoEducator @ yahoo.com

06-17-2008, 07:42 AM	#23 (permalink)
anewsome Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I was just wondering about this topic the other day. How does this impact regular training? __________________ "Hero shows you how to solve the problem - yourself. " -- Jet Li http://riposte.org Martial Arts news on the Web

06-17-2008, 11:45 AM	#24 (permalink)
ltindiandaeng Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Northern Thailand Posts: 88 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I teach stickfighting in school in Thailand and also do not have much sparring with sticks.There are farmers who lately have had all their crops stolen by bandits,which is a tragic thing obviously for them as this is their entire income and food supply.But law states they can only defend land with sticks,though to be honest they all have knives and machetes as tools but are not supposed to carry them for weapons.If these guys get injured there is no sick leave or timeoff so I try very hard not to have injuries.And I do believe they have learned valuable lessons even without sparring with the sticks.However,this being said,I do believe it is better to learn stick fighting,or any fighting for that matter,with sparring than without.However I do understand your instructor's method and am not disagreeing with him .

07-03-2008, 06:34 PM	#26 (permalink)
DonKey Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 41 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	The Corbon DPX, Federal HST, Winchester Ranger T series, and the Speer Gold Dot are the newer generation hollow point rounds. some reading on why these are good choices over older designs Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo sorry for the hijack

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