Hardwood sticks

Mike Brewer · 01-07-2008, 05:06 PM

There's something about a raw, natural, unvarnished training stick that appeals to me. Something primitive, maybe. I'm not sure. But when I train with a piece of barely sanded American Hickory with the bark still on it, I feel like I'm training the real roots of fighting. I mean, that's the way a weapon felt when the first humans grabbed it and smashed an opponent in the head.

I know hardwoods have a ton of disadvantages as training sticks in that they can shatter, they eat through rattan, and they're heavy as sin. However, I just recently moved to Virginia, and the hardwoods are plentiful here, unlike my previous home in Colorado. There, the only fare was pine and aspen. Nothing even remotely related to the hardwood families. Anyway, I have been collecting various types of hardwoods so I can play around with them as weapons, handles for tools, and training materials. I've come up with some that I really like, and thought I'd share.

Hickory, as it turns out, is amazingly durable. If you leave the bark on and just sand down the high points, you have a stick that's tough as nails, and almost as heavy as an iron bar. Working out with it is a forearm assault, and since the stuff grows pretty straight, you can make some really nice training sticks out of it. Using it against rattan is a bad idea for the person holding the rattan, as it will wear out a pair of rattan sticks in a short ten minute session. Sparring with them, as you might expect, hurts.

Beech is another hard, dense, heavy wood that grows around here. It's got a little more character to it than most woods in that it almost looks like a vine when it grows. As a sapling, it has a structure like muscle, with bands of wood piping together under the bark like muscles under skin. You can see the striations and twists underneath, and the bark has an almost two-tone pattern to it that feels like sandpaper or ray skin in the grip. It grows wild, though, with the kinds of bends and twists you might expect to see some biblical shepherd or Middle Earth wizard carrying, but when you can find a relatively straight piece, it makes an awesome weapon.

Ash is also nice, but not as hard as either of the previously mentioned woods. It is resilient though, which is why they make major league baseball bats out of the stuff. I haven't found a piece I like yet.

I don't know what inspired the idea of training with more natural-looking sticks. I think it had to do with an old Dog Brother article or video I saw ages ago. I've always had a few sticks like this in the inventory, but treelizard's recent posts about her South America trip inspired me to go out and make a few new ones. Anyone ever train with them against other hardwoods? What's been the experience?

Garland · 01-08-2008, 02:29 AM

I have a nice kamagong baston I got from a dekiti seminar...but I hate using it because it's so goddamned nice.

Is there anything wrong with using pipe? I mean, I like the weight, it's good for developing strength...but...it does kill those wimpy little rattan and bamboo twigs.

What is the ultimate for training in your guys opinion?

bodhisattva · 01-08-2008, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garland

I have a nice kamagong baston I got from a dekiti seminar...but I hate using it because it's so goddamned nice.

Is there anything wrong with using pipe? I mean, I like the weight, it's good for developing strength...but...it does kill those wimpy little rattan and bamboo twigs.

What is the ultimate for training in your guys opinion?

I'm not sure if its the "ultimate" for stickfighting training, but I bought some splitting maul handles at Home Depot/Lowes/wherever. I cut the big heavy ends off to make them the same length as my rattan sticks.

If you find the maul handles are too heavy and dense for you to flip and swing when stickfighting, then go for some axe handles, and do the same thing. Just be sure you don't pick up one of each by accident - if you haven't split any wood (heh..he said wood..) then you may not notice the difference right away.

bodhisattva · 01-08-2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

I don't know what inspired the idea of training with more natural-looking sticks. I think it had to do with an old Dog Brother article or video I saw ages ago. I've always had a few sticks like this in the inventory, but treelizard's recent posts about her South America trip inspired me to go out and make a few new ones. Anyone ever train with them against other hardwoods? What's been the experience?

Yeah, it was a dog brother's video I think that got me using the splitting maul handles, as well.

bodhisattva · 01-08-2008, 11:57 AM

Hm. What do the celtic/irish shillelagh(sp) fighters use?

I'm guessing it wasn't rattan...

Mike Brewer · 01-08-2008, 05:15 PM

I think it was blackthorn - a really tough, slow-growing, knotty wood with great huge thorns on it. I know blackthorn canes can run really, really pricey.

bodhisattva · 01-09-2008, 08:48 AM

Blackthorn: good name for a fighting stick material.

I think I'll as Kavanagh with SBG. He'd know, being that he lives in Ireland and practiced several celtic fighting arts.

Mike Brewer · 01-09-2008, 12:27 PM

Let us know what he says. I would definitely be interested.

eXcessiveForce · 01-09-2008, 01:35 PM

I've made sticks out of red oak, they hold up pretty well, but they do eventually break. I bought dowel type rods from a lumber mill sanded them and I did finish them but they were just as good without a finish. They are a little heavy but not to bad, I generally had 1' inch dowel which worked pretty well. they shredded rattan quickly though.

I have a set of Cocobollo sticks I train with, they are pretty heavy as well.

I also have a pair of some type of industrial plastic. they seem to hold up really well, but the give a lot more than a stick, we are still trying to decide if the loss of being able to block efficiently might be offset by the bowing of the stick a bit at contact giving you more stored energy and follow through.

I also have a solid brass bar 1/2 inch, it's damn heavy, use it as a trainer on occasion mostly to build the wrist. but it's too heavy to swing too much.

Mike Brewer · 01-09-2008, 01:51 PM

XF,
Actually, the dowel thing was what made me want to go cut my own. Dowels are generally cut from a flat plank or board, meaning they have a grain that runs all the way through them, just like a board does. That's a natural "fault line" of sorts that's likely to give under hard use. Unlike dowels, though, natural sticks that come from saplings have no permeating grain. That is, the grain in them is circular and offers similar strength in all directions. Add to that about a five year drought in my area, and you get very small, slow-growth rings on the outside, which acts like an even denser covering to potentially softer heartwood. The five or six very small, tight outer rings are much harder than faster-growth rings in the wood, so they act like a sort of second bark. I have to say, I'm pretty happy with the results I'm seeing.

bodhisattva · 01-09-2008, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

XF,
Actually, the dowel thing was what made me want to go cut my own. Dowels are generally cut from a flat plank or board, meaning they have a grain that runs all the way through them, just like a board does. That's a natural "fault line" of sorts that's likely to give under hard use. Unlike dowels, though, natural sticks that come from saplings have no permeating grain. That is, the grain in them is circular and offers similar strength in all directions. Add to that about a five year drought in my area, and you get very small, slow-growth rings on the outside, which acts like an even denser covering to potentially softer heartwood. The five or six very small, tight outer rings are much harder than faster-growth rings in the wood, so they act like a sort of second bark. I have to say, I'm pretty happy with the results I'm seeing.

Grow and sell. You have a crowd here who listens to you - and word of mouth is awesome for such a thing - in fact, of word of mouth is about the best thing for selling fight gear of any kind.

So. Grow and sell.

Mike Brewer · 01-09-2008, 07:13 PM

I gave it some thought, but ultimately it's unrealistic for the same reason that teaching is. My job is too time consuming. I love doing it, so it's not a bad thing, but it means I'm out doing things that pay better, provide more benefits, and serve a higher purpose than selling gear would. It's a good thought, though.

redtail · 01-14-2008, 04:57 PM

One of my favorite training sticks is a very old shovel handle. My dad remembers putting it in the shovel in the 50's. When it finally broke, I cut the straight part out and kept it. Heavy and sturdy.

buster brown · 01-26-2008, 05:11 PM

I have a few pairs of really nice Kamagong sticks with a carry case. I would be willing to sell.
If anyone wants more info Email me at: spinebuster77@yahoo.com
BB

01-07-2008, 05:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,074	Hardwood sticks There's something about a raw, natural, unvarnished training stick that appeals to me. Something primitive, maybe. I'm not sure. But when I train with a piece of barely sanded American Hickory with the bark still on it, I feel like I'm training the real roots of fighting. I mean, that's the way a weapon felt when the first humans grabbed it and smashed an opponent in the head. I know hardwoods have a ton of disadvantages as training sticks in that they can shatter, they eat through rattan, and they're heavy as sin. However, I just recently moved to Virginia, and the hardwoods are plentiful here, unlike my previous home in Colorado. There, the only fare was pine and aspen. Nothing even remotely related to the hardwood families. Anyway, I have been collecting various types of hardwoods so I can play around with them as weapons, handles for tools, and training materials. I've come up with some that I really like, and thought I'd share. Hickory, as it turns out, is amazingly durable. If you leave the bark on and just sand down the high points, you have a stick that's tough as nails, and almost as heavy as an iron bar. Working out with it is a forearm assault, and since the stuff grows pretty straight, you can make some really nice training sticks out of it. Using it against rattan is a bad idea for the person holding the rattan, as it will wear out a pair of rattan sticks in a short ten minute session. Sparring with them, as you might expect, hurts. Beech is another hard, dense, heavy wood that grows around here. It's got a little more character to it than most woods in that it almost looks like a vine when it grows. As a sapling, it has a structure like muscle, with bands of wood piping together under the bark like muscles under skin. You can see the striations and twists underneath, and the bark has an almost two-tone pattern to it that feels like sandpaper or ray skin in the grip. It grows wild, though, with the kinds of bends and twists you might expect to see some biblical shepherd or Middle Earth wizard carrying, but when you can find a relatively straight piece, it makes an awesome weapon. Ash is also nice, but not as hard as either of the previously mentioned woods. It is resilient though, which is why they make major league baseball bats out of the stuff. I haven't found a piece I like yet. I don't know what inspired the idea of training with more natural-looking sticks. I think it had to do with an old Dog Brother article or video I saw ages ago. I've always had a few sticks like this in the inventory, but treelizard's recent posts about her South America trip inspired me to go out and make a few new ones. Anyone ever train with them against other hardwoods? What's been the experience?

01-08-2008, 02:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
Garland Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 4,904	I have a nice kamagong baston I got from a dekiti seminar...but I hate using it because it's so goddamned nice. Is there anything wrong with using pipe? I mean, I like the weight, it's good for developing strength...but...it does kill those wimpy little rattan and bamboo twigs. What is the ultimate for training in your guys opinion? __________________ I kick you in da neck! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBHLrpn07G4 http://www.break.com/movies/englishf.html homo homini lupus Komm Susser Todd. No, no...no no no...whatever you are drinking, you need much, much more...and then to sleep. - jubaji

01-08-2008, 11:57 AM	#5 (permalink)
bodhisattva Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: nowhere Posts: 572	Hm. What do the celtic/irish shillelagh(sp) fighters use? I'm guessing it wasn't rattan... __________________ St. Louis MMA Training Club - MMA Boxing / Clinch / Submission Grappling / Wrestling Gym Portland MMA Training Club: MMA Boxing / Brazilian Jiu Jitsu / Greco Roman Wrestling Last edited by bodhisattva; 01-08-2008 at 11:58 AM. Reason: I just soiled myself...

01-09-2008, 08:48 AM	#7 (permalink)
bodhisattva Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: nowhere Posts: 572	Blackthorn: good name for a fighting stick material. I think I'll as Kavanagh with SBG. He'd know, being that he lives in Ireland and practiced several celtic fighting arts. __________________ St. Louis MMA Training Club - MMA Boxing / Clinch / Submission Grappling / Wrestling Gym Portland MMA Training Club: MMA Boxing / Brazilian Jiu Jitsu / Greco Roman Wrestling Last edited by bodhisattva; 01-09-2008 at 08:49 AM. Reason: cause mommie makes me nervous

01-09-2008, 01:35 PM	#9 (permalink)
eXcessiveForce Excessive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,658	I've made sticks out of red oak, they hold up pretty well, but they do eventually break. I bought dowel type rods from a lumber mill sanded them and I did finish them but they were just as good without a finish. They are a little heavy but not to bad, I generally had 1' inch dowel which worked pretty well. they shredded rattan quickly though. I have a set of Cocobollo sticks I train with, they are pretty heavy as well. I also have a pair of some type of industrial plastic. they seem to hold up really well, but the give a lot more than a stick, we are still trying to decide if the loss of being able to block efficiently might be offset by the bowing of the stick a bit at contact giving you more stored energy and follow through. I also have a solid brass bar 1/2 inch, it's damn heavy, use it as a trainer on occasion mostly to build the wrist. but it's too heavy to swing too much. __________________ eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive.

01-08-2008, 05:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,074	I think it was blackthorn - a really tough, slow-growing, knotty wood with great huge thorns on it. I know blackthorn canes can run really, really pricey.

01-09-2008, 12:27 PM	#8 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,074	Let us know what he says. I would definitely be interested.

01-09-2008, 01:51 PM	#10 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,074	XF, Actually, the dowel thing was what made me want to go cut my own. Dowels are generally cut from a flat plank or board, meaning they have a grain that runs all the way through them, just like a board does. That's a natural "fault line" of sorts that's likely to give under hard use. Unlike dowels, though, natural sticks that come from saplings have no permeating grain. That is, the grain in them is circular and offers similar strength in all directions. Add to that about a five year drought in my area, and you get very small, slow-growth rings on the outside, which acts like an even denser covering to potentially softer heartwood. The five or six very small, tight outer rings are much harder than faster-growth rings in the wood, so they act like a sort of second bark. I have to say, I'm pretty happy with the results I'm seeing.

01-09-2008, 07:13 PM	#12 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,074	I gave it some thought, but ultimately it's unrealistic for the same reason that teaching is. My job is too time consuming. I love doing it, so it's not a bad thing, but it means I'm out doing things that pay better, provide more benefits, and serve a higher purpose than selling gear would. It's a good thought, though.

01-14-2008, 04:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
redtail Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 11	One of my favorite training sticks is a very old shovel handle. My dad remembers putting it in the shovel in the 50's. When it finally broke, I cut the straight part out and kept it. Heavy and sturdy. __________________ Warriors Way Arkansas

01-26-2008, 05:11 PM	#14 (permalink)
buster brown Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 14	kamagong sticks I have a few pairs of really nice Kamagong sticks with a carry case. I would be willing to sell. If anyone wants more info Email me at: spinebuster77@yahoo.com BB

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