Gotta love realistic knife training!

Mike Brewer · 04-08-2008, 11:54 AM

I know these guys have made apprearances here before, but I love this video.

YouTube Video

Makes you appreciate the validity of hitting first.

fire cobra · 04-09-2008, 02:34 AM

He He good crack.

Tant01 · 04-09-2008, 09:39 AM

With all due respect "Realistic" is relative. Many knife attacks are ambush style assaults with murderous intent.

No warning, no woofing, no brandishing or threats.

I appreciate the point they're driving home but the blade is a stealth weapon...(mostly)

Mike Brewer · 04-09-2008, 09:58 AM

True, Tant. Very true. The "realism" to which I was referring was the difficulty in getting and controling the weapon once it's in play. The rest of it, in my opinion, is just for rasing the heart rate and adrenaline.

ttruscott · 04-09-2008, 10:15 AM

My old eyes have a hard time seeing this but it looks to me like each time the woofer approaches, he already has his knife in hand? (I must admit, I didn't watch them all...)

And yet not one person pre-empts him! What are they teaching here? Every fight starts with victim taking two to the spleen...

I have a drill I do: victim is told that if the attacker sees him he will rush in and try to kill him. Attacker is told to just go for a kill. Victim is told to do anything he has to to stop being killed.

Then the attack is on and victim always dies. Not once has anyone taken off and run out of the dojo door and down the driveway! In some situations, anything does not mean 'anything'...

The victims here are sparring, looking for openings, trying to find an entry etc, not trying to survive a deadly assault, (sigh).

**Michael Wright** · 04-09-2008, 10:47 AM

The futility of knife defence is an unfounded notion heavily promoted in the paranoid and overdramatic world of the martial artist.

According to Home Office statistics, only one in seven of the knife assaults in this country in 2006 ended in a fatality. 86% of people who faced a knife escaped and survived. These people will have been untrained and inexperienced on the whole, just regular guys and girls who faced this situation and overcame it.

Maybe they did so because they haven’t been continually infected with the notion that every dick who carries a blade is some kind of expert knife assassin.

Mike Brewer · 04-09-2008, 01:11 PM

Michael, I wholeheartedly agree. I have been in six knife encounters in my life, and while I got stuck pretty badly in one - here I am. In four of the six encounters, interestingly, I knew the guy was armed and saw the weapon. In two of them, the guy brandished the weapon before using it.

And in all of them, it was my willingness to disregard that blade and attack that brought me through.

In the latest encounter (on an escalator of all places), I disarmed the knife using a fairly technical disarm (stripped it off my forearm) and took a small poke. But all in all, most people who carry for criminal purposes are not knife trained assassins, but thugs who are using the knife as an alternative to ability.

The belief that you can and must win should trump any cautions once the engagement is a sure thing. Before that, yeah, avoidance and escape rule. But as I've said before - the guy who hits while his opponent is still thinking/talking/posturing/negotiating has a definite advantage.

Tant01 · 04-09-2008, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

The futility of knife defence is an unfounded notion heavily promoted in the paranoid and overdramatic world of the martial artist.
......

That's quote worthy...

Consider it stolen.

Garland · 04-09-2008, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

Maybe they did so because they haven’t been continually infected with the notion that every dick who carries a blade is some kind of expert knife assassin.

It's all about intent.

**Michael Wright** · 04-10-2008, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Michael, I wholeheartedly agree. I have been in six knife encounters in my life, and while I got stuck pretty badly in one - here I am.

I actually use you as a case study when I teach.

I taught a group of Police a while ago, and right from the off one of the guys was mouthing off that we were wasting our time (isn't there always). He was of the firm belief that if you face a knife you die. I said to him "you might want to meet a friend of mine, he moves pretty well for a guy who is dead six times over".

MasterKaliSilat · 04-10-2008, 05:08 PM

In actual training realistically, you gotta get cut, some cultures refer to that first time in fighting against a knife, "First Blood", which I believe is from Slavic cultures and some Asian Cultures as well, although the term is different, "Manong's mark". Although my spelling might be off from many different parts of the Philippines, the saying still goes, practice with a knife, get cut with a knife. Real world philosophy, the backbone of the power of SinaTirsiaWali, it doesn't matter what you do as long as it works. And when it happens, the loss was already obvious, no matter what you try, it didn't work. And that's the reason to practice as such, you gotta know, "every touch is a cut", also a SinaTirsiaWali philosophy, and in fact passed down from every master, tuhon and pendakar everywhere.

**Michael Wright** · 04-12-2008, 10:23 AM

I'm really not worried enough about it to train using live blades, or to start getting cut because of someone else's idea of tradition. Like I said in my original post, I find the whole scene paranoid and overdramatic.

I'd rather use my hands to play my guitar.

Mike Brewer · 04-12-2008, 10:39 AM

Chicks dig musicians even more than they dig scars, eh?

**Michael Wright** · 04-12-2008, 10:43 AM

Apparently thats true, never seems to work for me though, probably why I spend so much time at my PC

Tom Yum · 04-13-2008, 07:03 PM

......Nice!

04-09-2008, 09:39 AM	#3 (permalink)
Tant01 Humble Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern Ca. USA Posts: 4,798	With all due respect "Realistic" is relative. Many knife attacks are ambush style assaults with murderous intent. No warning, no woofing, no brandishing or threats. I appreciate the point they're driving home but the blade is a stealth weapon...(mostly) __________________ "In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur." James Paterson

04-09-2008, 10:15 AM	#5 (permalink)
ttruscott Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 45	My old eyes have a hard time seeing this but it looks to me like each time the woofer approaches, he already has his knife in hand? (I must admit, I didn't watch them all...) And yet not one person pre-empts him! What are they teaching here? Every fight starts with victim taking two to the spleen... I have a drill I do: victim is told that if the attacker sees him he will rush in and try to kill him. Attacker is told to just go for a kill. Victim is told to do anything he has to to stop being killed. Then the attack is on and victim always dies. Not once has anyone taken off and run out of the dojo door and down the driveway! In some situations, anything does not mean 'anything'... The victims here are sparring, looking for openings, trying to find an entry etc, not trying to survive a deadly assault, (sigh). __________________ "Fear, not compassion, restrains the wicked."

04-10-2008, 05:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
MasterKaliSilat Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 155	The Actual Knife Circles of Training In actual training realistically, you gotta get cut, some cultures refer to that first time in fighting against a knife, "First Blood", which I believe is from Slavic cultures and some Asian Cultures as well, although the term is different, "Manong's mark". Although my spelling might be off from many different parts of the Philippines, the saying still goes, practice with a knife, get cut with a knife. Real world philosophy, the backbone of the power of SinaTirsiaWali, it doesn't matter what you do as long as it works. And when it happens, the loss was already obvious, no matter what you try, it didn't work. And that's the reason to practice as such, you gotta know, "every touch is a cut", also a SinaTirsiaWali philosophy, and in fact passed down from every master, tuhon and pendakar everywhere. __________________ Warm Regards, Greg P. Greg Alland, Executive Director, Author, Producer, Lecturer World Kali Silat Society MasGuru @ KaliSilat.org Instructor Program July 2-6th NYC & Sept 12-16, Va. Beach, VA our 7th year coming March 13th, 2009. Please visit: [url]http://KaliSilat.org and our store for DVD information & myself in NY, NY (917) 535 KALI (5254) or Master Ocampo in VA. FilipinoEducator @ yahoo.com

04-13-2008, 07:03 PM	#15 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,218	......Nice! __________________ The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know. Slow is fast; fast is slow. Love it, leave it or fix it.

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04-09-2008, 02:34 AM	#2 (permalink)
fire cobra Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: north east england Posts: 346	He He good crack.

04-09-2008, 09:58 AM	#4 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,322	True, Tant. Very true. The "realism" to which I was referring was the difficulty in getting and controling the weapon once it's in play. The rest of it, in my opinion, is just for rasing the heart rate and adrenaline.

04-09-2008, 10:47 AM	#6 (permalink)
Michael Wright Premiere Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 979	The futility of knife defence is an unfounded notion heavily promoted in the paranoid and overdramatic world of the martial artist. According to Home Office statistics, only one in seven of the knife assaults in this country in 2006 ended in a fatality. 86% of people who faced a knife escaped and survived. These people will have been untrained and inexperienced on the whole, just regular guys and girls who faced this situation and overcame it. Maybe they did so because they haven’t been continually infected with the notion that every dick who carries a blade is some kind of expert knife assassin.

04-09-2008, 01:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,322	Michael, I wholeheartedly agree. I have been in six knife encounters in my life, and while I got stuck pretty badly in one - here I am. In four of the six encounters, interestingly, I knew the guy was armed and saw the weapon. In two of them, the guy brandished the weapon before using it. And in all of them, it was my willingness to disregard that blade and attack that brought me through. In the latest encounter (on an escalator of all places), I disarmed the knife using a fairly technical disarm (stripped it off my forearm) and took a small poke. But all in all, most people who carry for criminal purposes are not knife trained assassins, but thugs who are using the knife as an alternative to ability. The belief that you can and must win should trump any cautions once the engagement is a sure thing. Before that, yeah, avoidance and escape rule. But as I've said before - the guy who hits while his opponent is still thinking/talking/posturing/negotiating has a definite advantage.

04-12-2008, 10:23 AM	#12 (permalink)
Michael Wright Premiere Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 979	I'm really not worried enough about it to train using live blades, or to start getting cut because of someone else's idea of tradition. Like I said in my original post, I find the whole scene paranoid and overdramatic. I'd rather use my hands to play my guitar.

04-12-2008, 10:39 AM	#13 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,322	Chicks dig musicians even more than they dig scars, eh?

04-12-2008, 10:43 AM	#14 (permalink)
Michael Wright Premiere Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 979	Apparently thats true, never seems to work for me though, probably why I spend so much time at my PC

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