Thread: Silat???

even in wing chun circles, there are hundreds, probably a thousand wing chun teachers here, who learned in china, and out of all of them, theres probably about 15 of those original teachers, who really know the sytam, so of all the lineages, back to china, there are thousands of students here in america, but so few learned from a teacher who knew the system in its entirety and correctly. it is the same in silat, just because an art goes back to indonesia, even if the did teach the dutch, WHICH I DOUBT. it doesnt make the silat credible, just because its from that country. also, yes, indonesian poor woman married dutch men, the dutch womens parents 9- 10 times, disapproved of the marriage, and did not offer silat to the grandsons. im not saying that all silat is bogus. also, i have the silat bukti negara and serk tapes from the dethaures and the lineage goes back to mas jude, if i remember correctly, i can look again, but according to indonesians i know, the lineage is bogus. also, im not stating hearsay, when it came to anything pa told me directly. i dont dislike you, so dont get the wrong idea, i would love to exchange info. i just dont believe there are many pure silat in america. i also stated that yanni was legitimate from indonesia, but his perisai diri, is university silat, and like wushu. just because their indonesian, doesnt mean they are respected in indonesia. look at royce gracie, he was a god in america, he was never a big deal in bjj in his country

i havent seen the light, nor am i any expert on silat. you may be able to find real silat, in indonesia, if you stay there for a while, not a few weeks. there is always some way, although it sucks how hard that is. anyway, im not saying that all silat is bogus, im saying its questionable. maybe your lineage has some very good pieces of silat. if you remember, our debate went forward when i told you that pa said your lineage was missing pieces. also, the lineage you told me of, is different from the dethaures lineage on their butki negara tape. which anyway, the tape does have some good stuff. i never said not to study with your teacher either.i would try to verify your lineage, and see how long they trained in indonesia, etc. also, if you make your silat work for real, then i commend you. again, if you dont know the principles behind each silat art, you are just doing techniques,and if your teacher doesnt know the principles, then i would ask more questions. its like someone who does taiqi, they may look good doing the form, have no internal qi,and not understand the taiqi classics. now if i know the classics, i can look at someone and know if they are doing the real thing. same as wing chun, we have the kuen kut, if someone does movements outside of the kuen kut, its not wing chun anymore. im not talking about adding other arts. im talking about just wing chun. so i know the kuen kut, and can tell what someone is teaching, if its real or not. same for silat and kali, if you know principles, you can tell. if your teacher doesnt know the principles, he can add anything and say its silat,

i hear where your coming from, but i do feel dan has real silat, from pa herman, but i dont think he teaches it the way he learned it. also, if i look back at my seminar tapes of pa in 93, the material was much rougher,and to the point, as compared to years following. also, pa told me when he first came here, his silat was taught as in indonesia, and then many people quit, it was to hard, so he watered it down tremendously, and started more peshahan, because americans loved that. unfortunately im screwed out of mande muda, my old instructor, who is a big liar, is the only one in ny who host the seminars, and after i had a falling out with him, i cant get material. the only other guy was mike hands, and hes in jail. so i cant train with ibu rita. but i feel her silat will be a little more pure than what pa taught. it may be closer to what pa originally taught. let me know if you have any tapes you want to trade.

I realize I'm a tad late, however...

There seem to be a few things I'd like to clarify about Serak, that seem to have been misinterpretted (although Sikal did a great job clarifying many issues).

1) Tongkat was a system developed by Pak Victor. It uses stick, but its meaning in this context means "Branch". A "Branch" of Serak. It is composed of his thought processes based off of many other styles. It does have a lot of stick and staff work, but also has open-hand as well. Almost every form of silat has stick work. Silat spread (via the Madjapahit Empire) to the Philippines where it became Kali. I'm sure you'll agree that most forms of Kali have stickwork. It is not limited to any single style of Silat.
2) The DeThouars came to the US in the 60's. Pak Victor has been teaching Serak openly for quite a while now. Someone who says "They don't know the entire system" might be misled since they mostly taught Tongkat and Bukti Negara in the early days. It was a close-guarded secret for a long time. Furthermore, since most magazines and books agree that the DeThouars brought Serak to the US, it would seem odd that someone else would question it.
3) Guru Dan Inosanto, who has known Pak Victor DeThouars for decades, is currently studying Serak from Pak Victor DeThouars at the VDT Academy Headquarters and getting his guru-ship in this art. I am sure that he is familiar with who knows what.
4) Most cultures don't show everything they know to foreigners. That's true of Karate, Kung Fu, Silat, everything. However, Pak Victor had the chance to study from Pak Tisari Mardjuki who studied directly from Mas Roen (a disciple of the founder), as well as his Uncle John who studied from Mas Djut (another disciple of the founder). He is interested in making sure the art goes on, and so is teaching the system openly now.
5) There were 6 students of Pak Serak (the founder of the system). Mas Roen, Mas Djut, Moustafa, and 3 others. Moustafa was removed from the system by Pak Serak. So it is entirely possible that there may be versions of Serak that exist that look slightly different. However, the curriculum that Pak teaches is identical to the system currently taught by Pak Mardjuki in Indonesia today.

I am sure Pak Victor DeThouars knows the system. It is outlined currently in his book "Serak the Tsunami".

If you have questions on Serak, I'll be glad to field them.

Selamat,
Rooke

Hello,

Does anyone here study the art of Pencak Silat Ratu Adil? if so, What is the serak portion of that art compared to the Serak of Pak Vic? Also, has anyone heard of Guru Art Rhemrev? I heard he teaches in Gardena,CA. What is his art of Silat like? I am looking for a Silat school in Southern California, any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I may be wrong on some of these. If so, my apologies to any offended parties, it is purely from what I've heard/read, so many things are not personally verified by me.

Pencak Silat Ratu Adil is a mixture of various systems, but does not have a majority of Serak in it. Serak compromises a small portion of it. It is composed of Setia Hati, Tjimande, Kalong, and Kung Fu San Soo. It stresses many ranges of combat. They have an official website that can be checked for further information. There are also 2 videos put out by Guru Rudy, that show some aspects of Ratu Adil.

Rudy Terlinden's silat that had a stronger Serak influence was called Adek, which was developed prior to Ratu Adil. This is taught by Guru Andre Gnustcracken (forgive the misspelling of the last name) who teaches up north and his brother Guru Hans (who teaches in the South Bay). Guru Hans, I believe teaches on Sundays at the VDT Academy. That has to be confirmed with the VDT Academy however. More information of their style can be found at www.pentjaksilatusa.com. I'm not sure what other influences Adek has, but it is a very strong style.

Guru Arthur Rhemrev I believe currently teaches out of his house. His style is a mixture of many styles including tjimande, serak, and various animal styles, as well as indigenous forms of grappling arts from Indonesia. His style is called Sikap Baru.

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Now my 2 cents.

None of these arts possess the entire Serak system. Differences are seen in footwork and distancing. Furthermore, the platforms of Serak are not in any of these systems. The platforms that the djurus are walked on, possess certain keys to the application of the forms. For information on the entire Serak curriculum, pick up Pak Vic's book "Serak the Tsunami". That lists the full curriculum up to full Guru.

I'm not saying that any of the other arts are bad, better, or worse. Just that they only have a portion and variation of the Serak curriculum, and have utilized other systems to integrate into their respective fighting philosophies. What is better or worse is up to the individual practioner.

Sincerely,
Rooke

PS: I will say this. I'm currently a student of Pak Vic's. He has the most comprehensive knowledge I've seen.

The Ratu Adil tapes were very informative, and are a valuable part of my video collection.

Dr. Andre and Guru Hans have great knowledge of lines and body mechanics, and are awe-inspiring to watch.

Guru Rhemrev was my first teacher. His knowledge of locks, counters, and the blade are amazing.

Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong with any of your choices. But I recommend contacting each school for information and to sit in and watch a class to see which suits your martial philosophy.