Cane fighting (curved stick, not just straight)

quietanswer · 10-25-2000, 07:45 PM

Any of you guys ever learn any Cane techniques? I don't know if the FMA had any versions of this (but assume they probably did somewhere).. but as I recall china and japan contributed to it, especially china. A CMA friend of mine said that the chinese were experts with it, and found some incredible uses for the curved end, and were adept at applying them.. later I saw a jackie chan movie (forget the name)with a great scene in it.. his master comes in to the training room, and begins to test jackie's dodging ability by whipping tennis balls, after jackie does some of his usual acrobatics, the master takes after him withhis walking cane.. the moves he did were pretty slick... i just went to a website (canemasters.com) and saw they have some videos, and some awesome fighting canes for sale..

which leads me back to my question: anyone know how to use these (other than just as basic sticks).. or ever seen anyone else do any cane technique, or, better yet, apply it in a dueling/fighting scenario?

or any comments on this art at all?

sikal · 10-26-2000, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by quietanswer
Any of you guys ever learn any Cane techniques? I don't know if the FMA had any versions of this (but assume they probably did somewhere).. but as I recall china and japan contributed to it, especially china. A CMA friend of mine said that the chinese were experts with it, and found some incredible uses for the curved end, and were adept at applying them.. later I saw a jackie chan movie (forget the name)with a great scene in it.. his master comes in to the training room, and begins to test jackie's dodging ability by whipping tennis balls, after jackie does some of his usual acrobatics, the master takes after him withhis walking cane.. the moves he did were pretty slick... i just went to a website (canemasters.com) and saw they have some videos, and some awesome fighting canes for sale..

which leads me back to my question: anyone know how to use these (other than just as basic sticks).. or ever seen anyone else do any cane technique, or, better yet, apply it in a dueling/fighting scenario?

or any comments on this art at all?

First, that movie is "The Big Brawl" and was Jackie's first American movie (i.e.: made in America). He didn't like the fact that he wasn't given the freedom of choreography that he was used to in China, and he didn't like the fight scenes that he was forced to do, and the movie pretty much bombed in the box office ... Jackie then did the Cannonball Run and went back to China somewhat disillusioned with the American film industry. Only recently did he decide to give it another go. His instructor in it was, incidentally, the incomparable Mako (who I love every time I see him :-) I like this movie a lot, though.

Anyway, cane techniques ... Absolutely! That hook can be used for joint locks, throws, sweeps, disarms, etc. See the flexible weapons discussion for my shameless plug and relate it to this as well :-)

And see, if you brought us in for a workshop, we could go over the disarms from the other discussion too :-)

Mike

knuckledragger · 10-26-2000, 02:47 AM

I think Hapkido :the Korean martial art( BOY ! That sounds like the title of an Ohara publications book) is supposed to be known for its cane techniques.Also, in Black Belt mag I remember seeing and ad for these guys called the "Cane Masters " they had a hard style karate background if I remember correctly. A training partner of mine (FMA) sent away for the tape because he was looking for something for his grandfather to use for self defense and/or a light workout. He was impressed with it and the stuff he showed me was good ,although ,it does seem geared to the geriactric set..Check out the movie "The Killer Elite " with James Caan: he plays a hitman whose partner puts bullets throught his knees and elbows, he is forced to use a cane so he gets instruction in its use and becomes pretty adept at its use .There are also ninjas in it and our old pal Mako . Oh and in Savate /Boxe Francais I think they would have more practical techniues for the cane .I remember reading that they taught La Canne a system of using a walking cane for self defense,they slashed at the wrists with it .I have seen people on the HACA website who claim to have studied "French cane Fighting " so you may wanna check it out .Hope this helps,although I probably made some mistakes and will be in a flame war with irate French savate students and their chimpanzees.(see thread "fight my monkee ...peeg"

quietanswer · 10-26-2000, 01:44 PM

mike: If i brought you guys in for a workshop, I doubt we'd work cane/flexible techniques..I'd probably brutalize you with subtle adjustments to my foundational techniques..as I've not had a teacher watch me practice in some time..

so you're from dayton.. excuse my lack of geography, I'm an american, we're not too bright that way.. is that Ohio?

what's a seminar cost? I'm not in/running my own school, just me and a guy i teach/train with..

knuckledragger: thanks for the help..there's a website called canemasters.com.. perhaps thats where your friend purchased the tape? i'm going to keep them in mind, as they do have tapes on the subject there.. and I'll have to catch the Caan movie if I see it at blockbuster or hollywood..thanks

sikal · 10-26-2000, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by quietanswer
mike: If i brought you guys in for a workshop, I doubt we'd work cane/flexible techniques..I'd probably brutalize you with subtle adjustments to my foundational techniques..as I've not had a teacher watch me practice in some time..

so you're from dayton.. excuse my lack of geography, I'm an american, we're not too bright that way.. is that Ohio?

what's a seminar cost? I'm not in/running my own school, just me and a guy i teach/train with..

knuckledragger: thanks for the help..there's a website called canemasters.com.. perhaps thats where your friend purchased the tape? i'm going to keep them in mind, as they do have tapes on the subject there.. and I'll have to catch the Caan movie if I see it at blockbuster or hollywood..thanks

LOL ... Yup. Dayton is in Ohio. It's about 6 hours from you :-) You'd have to talk to my instructor about price ... I'd just be coming along as an uke (or "murid mati" as we call it in Indonesian :-)

If you want to e-mail me privately it would probably be easier to discuss :-) My e-mail address is: sikal@yahoo.com

Another option is that I occasionally go through St. Louis (I've got family in Jeff City) and we could make arrangements to hook up the next time I come through (unfortunately I have no idea at present when that'll be ... but it might be an option).

Mike

quietanswer · 10-26-2000, 02:25 PM

well, find out about price, and let me know. It would be a small scenario with two people, my training partner and myself. he has a long room in his basement we practice in.. just wide enough, but plenty long.. also, he has a spacious backyard..

it would be great that you come along, because that would give both he and I advanced partners to train with.. I often regret that my energy is the only energy he's felt..as I think smooth, fluid motion is something you learn from observation and physical contact..I'm smooth, but I am not my past instructors..

as far as a trip through town, while you visit relatives... this probably fits my finances better, but I'd still be willing to maybe pay your gas cost for the trip, and maybe a dinner after practicing..I'd love to practice with a new person, with new energy, and new movements.. the guy i fight is only about 10 pounds heavier, and as I recall (from pics on your site) you are quite a bit larger than me..which would be helpful of itself. I doubt many 130 pound guys are going to menace me in life..

though there WAS that incident at Best Buy in the return line last night..but lemme tell ya, that guy had it coming..

anyway, I'll take this convo to email so as to not personalize this thread..you (or anyone here_) can contact my Funkdaddy666@hotmail.com address..

sikal · 10-26-2000, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by quietanswer
well, find out about price, and let me know. It would be a small scenario with two people, my training partner and myself. he has a long room in his basement we practice in.. just wide enough, but plenty long.. also, he has a spacious backyard..

it would be great that you come along, because that would give both he and I advanced partners to train with.. I often regret that my energy is the only energy he's felt..as I think smooth, fluid motion is something you learn from observation and physical contact..I'm smooth, but I am not my past instructors..

as far as a trip through town, while you visit relatives... this probably fits my finances better, but I'd still be willing to maybe pay your gas cost for the trip, and maybe a dinner after practicing..I'd love to practice with a new person, with new energy, and new movements.. the guy i fight is only about 10 pounds heavier, and as I recall (from pics on your site) you are quite a bit larger than me..which would be helpful of itself. I doubt many 130 pound guys are going to menace me in life..

though there WAS that incident at Best Buy in the return line last night..but lemme tell ya, that guy had it coming..

anyway, I'll take this convo to email so as to not personalize this thread..you (or anyone here_) can contact my Funkdaddy666@hotmail.com address..

LOL ... I don't know how big you are. I'm about 230 lbs, though :-) My instructor, though, is 135 and tosses me around like a ragdoll ... there are 130 lb. guys that I want nothing to do with :-)

Just kidding ... I understand completely.

We'll discuss further in private e-mail :-)

Regards, Mike

Chad W. Getz · 10-26-2000, 08:59 PM

So Dwayne, anytime I need a tank of gas, I can just come and drive to see you...

Anyway, there is an article in one of the MA mags out this month, and the guy has a "super-cane", it's a staff with a cane hook at one end. Now that would be pretty wicked, huh. Canemaster makes good canes with good quality. They make some good sticks as well, which is same material, minus the hook.

IMO, one of the main advantages of the cane can be utilized in the clinch/grappling range. Not saying it isn't effective anywhere else, but you know my philosophy.

sikal · 10-27-2000, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chad W. Getz
So Dwayne, anytime I need a tank of gas, I can just come and drive to see you...

Anyway, there is an article in one of the MA mags out this month, and the guy has a "super-cane", it's a staff with a cane hook at one end. Now that would be pretty wicked, huh. Canemaster makes good canes with good quality. They make some good sticks as well, which is same material, minus the hook.

IMO, one of the main advantages of the cane can be utilized in the clinch/grappling range. Not saying it isn't effective anywhere else, but you know my philosophy.

Yup. I read that article ... and have the same thing ... though not from Cane Masters. I bought mine in a store at a state park. They are hand made by someone local and sold at the store. It's very nice ... though without the wicked little modifications (i.e.: nice gripping area and pointier hook) that Cane Masters has. It's a very nice weapon ... er, I mean walking stick ... and I've had a lot of fun playing ... er, I mean walking ... with it :-)

Mike

Chad W. Getz · 10-27-2000, 09:38 AM

Wicked weapon. Ever hold a cane with the hook part as your punyo?

sikal · 10-27-2000, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chad W. Getz
Wicked weapon. Ever hold a cane with the hook part as your punyo?

Absolutely! That's my favorite way.

In fact, here's a relatively simple tech. to describe:

Hold the cane like a quarter staff between your 2 hands with the hook on the right hand side. Your partner swings and angle 1 with a stick (i.e.: right hand forehand from his right shoulder toward your left temple). Bring the cane up and "block" the shot while hitting him in the face with the hook (have the hook facing away from you). Take your follow through from the strike and wrap your right arm over, then back under his stick arm. This should hook his arm with the cane. Now, pull the cane back and to your left. The hook should either bite into his arm or slide up his arm to his wrist where it will catch on the puny (butt) of his stick. Now he has two (primary) choices. He can let go of the stick to escape the hook of your cane or he can hold on and get locked and/or thrown.

Regards, Mike

quietanswer · 10-27-2000, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Chad W. Getz
-So Dwayne, anytime I need a tank of gas, I can just come and drive to see you...

that's pretty funny

but in all seriousness, if you are ever in Missouri, you can stay at my place...hope you don't mind half naked dancing girls and big clouds of ..well..incense.. (ahem)

-Anyway, there is an article in one of the MA mags out this month, and the guy has a "super-cane", it's a staff with a cane hook at one end.

little bo peep? (jokes..jokes)

-but you know my philosophy.

Yes, as I recall it's "Bitch, shave that thing, or I aint doing it..."

I have the same philosophy..

mike said-Wicked weapon. Ever hold a cane with the hook part as your punyo?

that's what I was thinking when i started thinking of cane weapons... my teach said that the pommel of a sword was it's counter-balance.. with that in mind, the hook-cane seems kind of interesting..

though it would look half as cool as a straight walking stick, with metal tips on both ends (metal tips.. bet I can splinter bones with that..i bet..no, really, i bet)

[Edited by quietanswer on 10-27-2000 at 08:44 AM]

sikal · 10-30-2000, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by quietanswer
Originally posted by Chad W. Getz
-So Dwayne, anytime I need a tank of gas, I can just come and drive to see you...

that's pretty funny but in all seriousness, if you are ever in Missouri, you can stay at my place...hope you don't mind half naked dancing girls and big clouds of ..well..incense.. (ahem)

-Anyway, there is an article in one of the MA mags out this month, and the guy has a "super-cane", it's a staff with a cane hook at one end.

little bo peep? (jokes..jokes)

-but you know my philosophy.

Yes, as I recall it's "Bitch, shave that thing, or I aint doing it..."

I have the same philosophy..

mike said-Wicked weapon. Ever hold a cane with the hook part as your punyo?

that's what I was thinking when i started thinking of cane weapons... my teach said that the pommel of a sword was it's counter-balance.. with that in mind, the hook-cane seems kind of interesting..

though it would look half as cool as a straight walking stick, with metal tips on both ends (metal tips.. bet I can splinter bones with that..i bet..no, really, i bet)

[Edited by quietanswer on 10-27-2000 at 08:44 AM]

Yup ... the thing you have to be careful of (and this relates to the Cane Master products as well) is that in some areas any modifications to the cane to improve its functionality as a weapon will make it a weapon in the eyes of the law. For reasons such as this, it's safer to carry unmodified conventional items ... especially ones that possession of can easily be explained.

However, many walking sticks/canes have a brass head (often in the shape of animals) which can do wonders in a fight :-)

Mike

11-01-2000, 01:13 PM

anyone use Chi Kung studies when practiceing stick fighting. If not I belive it would help u out alot in relaxing and focusing and speed!

quietanswer · 11-01-2000, 03:21 PM

In st. louis we have a Sifu Justin Meehan. He's studied tai chi for 36 years, and studied overseas with a lot of the masters. He's highly regarded, and his students win tons and tons of national push hand competitions.. he's the combative tai chi man I sometimes refer to..

I've recently decided to dedicate at least one night a week, and 15-30 mins a day to learn the Chen form..a more combative application than the yang form, but it still has all of the qigong benefits to health..

I have nasty shoulder and knee injuries I want to fix..and i want the speed and reflection.

of course, I'm still fighting 2-3 nights a week. this is a supplement. after having worked with him for a short time on a few things, i see a real benefit to this addition. guys like matt furey (and farmer burns from the old days) put great store by breathing exercises for health, stamina, and resiliency. i'm going to take a look. i mean, farmer burns? talk about a fighter...

I'll let you know if I feel it's affected my fma/boxing/wrestling/fighting skills, and how.

10-25-2000, 07:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
quietanswer Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Saint Louis, Missouri, USA Posts: 377 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Any of you guys ever learn any Cane techniques? I don't know if the FMA had any versions of this (but assume they probably did somewhere).. but as I recall china and japan contributed to it, especially china. A CMA friend of mine said that the chinese were experts with it, and found some incredible uses for the curved end, and were adept at applying them.. later I saw a jackie chan movie (forget the name)with a great scene in it.. his master comes in to the training room, and begins to test jackie's dodging ability by whipping tennis balls, after jackie does some of his usual acrobatics, the master takes after him withhis walking cane.. the moves he did were pretty slick... i just went to a website (canemasters.com) and saw they have some videos, and some awesome fighting canes for sale.. which leads me back to my question: anyone know how to use these (other than just as basic sticks).. or ever seen anyone else do any cane technique, or, better yet, apply it in a dueling/fighting scenario? or any comments on this art at all? __________________ ------------------------------------------------ *St Louis MMA Club for Boxing / Clinch / Grappling Training* *www.stlouistrainingcircle.com*

10-26-2000, 01:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
quietanswer Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Saint Louis, Missouri, USA Posts: 377 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	mike: If i brought you guys in for a workshop, I doubt we'd work cane/flexible techniques..I'd probably brutalize you with subtle adjustments to my foundational techniques..as I've not had a teacher watch me practice in some time.. so you're from dayton.. excuse my lack of geography, I'm an american, we're not too bright that way.. is that Ohio? what's a seminar cost? I'm not in/running my own school, just me and a guy i teach/train with.. knuckledragger: thanks for the help..there's a website called canemasters.com.. perhaps thats where your friend purchased the tape? i'm going to keep them in mind, as they do have tapes on the subject there.. and I'll have to catch the Caan movie if I see it at blockbuster or hollywood..thanks __________________ ------------------------------------------------ *St Louis MMA Club for Boxing / Clinch / Grappling Training* *www.stlouistrainingcircle.com*

10-26-2000, 02:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
quietanswer Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Saint Louis, Missouri, USA Posts: 377 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	well, find out about price, and let me know. It would be a small scenario with two people, my training partner and myself. he has a long room in his basement we practice in.. just wide enough, but plenty long.. also, he has a spacious backyard.. it would be great that you come along, because that would give both he and I advanced partners to train with.. I often regret that my energy is the only energy he's felt..as I think smooth, fluid motion is something you learn from observation and physical contact..I'm smooth, but I am not my past instructors.. as far as a trip through town, while you visit relatives... this probably fits my finances better, but I'd still be willing to maybe pay your gas cost for the trip, and maybe a dinner after practicing..I'd love to practice with a new person, with new energy, and new movements.. the guy i fight is only about 10 pounds heavier, and as I recall (from pics on your site) you are quite a bit larger than me..which would be helpful of itself. I doubt many 130 pound guys are going to menace me in life.. though there WAS that incident at Best Buy in the return line last night..but lemme tell ya, that guy had it coming.. anyway, I'll take this convo to email so as to not personalize this thread..you (or anyone here_) can contact my Funkdaddy666@hotmail.com address.. __________________ ------------------------------------------------ *St Louis MMA Club for Boxing / Clinch / Grappling Training* *www.stlouistrainingcircle.com*

10-26-2000, 08:59 PM	#8 (permalink)
Chad W. Getz Advanced Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Honolulu Posts: 509 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	So Dwayne, anytime I need a tank of gas, I can just come and drive to see you... Anyway, there is an article in one of the MA mags out this month, and the guy has a "super-cane", it's a staff with a cane hook at one end. Now that would be pretty wicked, huh. Canemaster makes good canes with good quality. They make some good sticks as well, which is same material, minus the hook. IMO, one of the main advantages of the cane can be utilized in the clinch/grappling range. Not saying it isn't effective anywhere else, but you know my philosophy. __________________ Chad W. Getz Full Contact Hawaii - http://www.fullcontacthi.com Stickfighting Digest - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stickfighting The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up. The clinching arts imply the clinch can stop the striker from striking, and the grappler from taking it to the ground. The weapon arts imply the they can stop the unarmed man. A complete martial art implies any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere.

10-27-2000, 09:38 AM	#10 (permalink)
Chad W. Getz Advanced Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Honolulu Posts: 509 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wicked weapon. Ever hold a cane with the hook part as your punyo? __________________ Chad W. Getz Full Contact Hawaii - http://www.fullcontacthi.com Stickfighting Digest - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stickfighting The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up. The clinching arts imply the clinch can stop the striker from striking, and the grappler from taking it to the ground. The weapon arts imply the they can stop the unarmed man. A complete martial art implies any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere.

10-26-2000, 02:47 AM	#3 (permalink)
knuckledragger Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 42 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think Hapkido :the Korean martial art( BOY ! That sounds like the title of an Ohara publications book) is supposed to be known for its cane techniques.Also, in Black Belt mag I remember seeing and ad for these guys called the "Cane Masters " they had a hard style karate background if I remember correctly. A training partner of mine (FMA) sent away for the tape because he was looking for something for his grandfather to use for self defense and/or a light workout. He was impressed with it and the stuff he showed me was good ,although ,it does seem geared to the geriactric set..Check out the movie "The Killer Elite " with James Caan: he plays a hitman whose partner puts bullets throught his knees and elbows, he is forced to use a cane so he gets instruction in its use and becomes pretty adept at its use .There are also ninjas in it and our old pal Mako . Oh and in Savate /Boxe Francais I think they would have more practical techniues for the cane .I remember reading that they taught La Canne a system of using a walking cane for self defense,they slashed at the wrists with it .I have seen people on the HACA website who claim to have studied "French cane Fighting " so you may wanna check it out .Hope this helps,although I probably made some mistakes and will be in a flame war with irate French savate students and their chimpanzees.(see thread "fight my monkee ...peeg"

10-27-2000, 12:39 PM	#12 (permalink)
quietanswer Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Saint Louis, Missouri, USA Posts: 377 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Originally posted by Chad W. Getz -So Dwayne, anytime I need a tank of gas, I can just come and drive to see you... that's pretty funny but in all seriousness, if you are ever in Missouri, you can stay at my place...hope you don't mind half naked dancing girls and big clouds of ..well..incense.. (ahem) -Anyway, there is an article in one of the MA mags out this month, and the guy has a "super-cane", it's a staff with a cane hook at one end. little bo peep? (jokes..jokes) -but you know my philosophy. Yes, as I recall it's "Bitch, shave that thing, or I aint doing it..." I have the same philosophy.. mike said-Wicked weapon. Ever hold a cane with the hook part as your punyo? that's what I was thinking when i started thinking of cane weapons... my teach said that the pommel of a sword was it's counter-balance.. with that in mind, the hook-cane seems kind of interesting.. though it would look half as cool as a straight walking stick, with metal tips on both ends (metal tips.. bet I can splinter bones with that..i bet..no, really, i bet) [Edited by quietanswer on 10-27-2000 at 08:44 AM] __________________ ------------------------------------------------ *St Louis MMA Club for Boxing / Clinch / Grappling Training* *www.stlouistrainingcircle.com*

11-01-2000, 01:13 PM	#14 (permalink)
Guest Posts: n/a	Chi Kung anyone use Chi Kung studies when practiceing stick fighting. If not I belive it would help u out alot in relaxing and focusing and speed!

11-01-2000, 03:21 PM	#15 (permalink)
quietanswer Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Saint Louis, Missouri, USA Posts: 377 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	In st. louis we have a Sifu Justin Meehan. He's studied tai chi for 36 years, and studied overseas with a lot of the masters. He's highly regarded, and his students win tons and tons of national push hand competitions.. he's the combative tai chi man I sometimes refer to.. I've recently decided to dedicate at least one night a week, and 15-30 mins a day to learn the Chen form..a more combative application than the yang form, but it still has all of the qigong benefits to health.. I have nasty shoulder and knee injuries I want to fix..and i want the speed and reflection. of course, I'm still fighting 2-3 nights a week. this is a supplement. after having worked with him for a short time on a few things, i see a real benefit to this addition. guys like matt furey (and farmer burns from the old days) put great store by breathing exercises for health, stamina, and resiliency. i'm going to take a look. i mean, farmer burns? talk about a fighter... I'll let you know if I feel it's affected my fma/boxing/wrestling/fighting skills, and how. __________________ ------------------------------------------------ *St Louis MMA Club for Boxing / Clinch / Grappling Training* *www.stlouistrainingcircle.com*

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