The Ultimate in Martial Arts

Tony10 · 11-06-2000, 05:00 PM

Hey guys, was asking about something like this here last summer.

Apparently somebody has come up with an exercise-only program using the sticks, much like how cardio-boxing sprang from boxing. Back then, I forgot to whom I was speaking, somebody had heard of this and said somebody was putting together a videotape.

As it turns out, an instructor with whom I work is attending a fitness convention in Florida this month where he will be taking an "urban stickfighting" class, which sounds like what I was asking about.

Why am I asking? A) I would like to bring something like this to the gym where I work, B) however, I also shudder to think about how lame this could potentially be, as I have have seen painfully obvious non-boxers teach "boxing" at many gyms, including where I work.

What do you hear?

Chad W. Getz · 11-06-2000, 08:09 PM

I personally don't do much weight training, other than sparatic dumbell lifting here and there, except for swinging my iron bars and lots of stick work. Now I'm not Lou Ferigno, but it has increased my tone on bicep, tricep, forearm(inside and outside), shoulder, neck, back, and traps, as well as increased my gripping strength. Sounds pretty good.

Tony10 · 11-06-2000, 08:29 PM

Oh, I know. Hitting the heavy bags, too, is quite a workout with the sticks.

quietanswer · 11-07-2000, 04:00 PM

hm. stickfighting does tone one up, but so does jump roping. i say if cardio stickfighting happens, I'd like for it to be more than just exercise. I mean, think about it.. stickfighting the way WE do it is cardio exercise too..so why change it to get a cardio effect from it? you know? I don't see a reason for cardio-stickfighting classes to teach anything different than a standard kali/arnis/escrima class would.. at least, no different from a GOOD fma class... one that makes you work.

the term cardio stickfighting just sounds like it means "less fight applicable stick movements"..and if that's the case, I say put it away with the tae bo videos and let's go beat each other up.

however, it doesn't bother me. let Joe Suburbs think he's a stickfighter, if that's the fantasy he wants. the whole world can be overconfident, for all I care. it gives me an advantage

Tony10 · 11-07-2000, 04:31 PM

Well, I know what you mean. Nobody likes to see something watered down and fed to the masses a la Tae Bo. The McDonald's-ization of said martial art.

However, it doesn't have to be that way. I teach cardio boxing twice a week and I can assure you that every combo or kick I use is legit--no fancy dance moves or crap that doesn't flow. True, you're not learning how to fight, but you are conceivably learning technique, which is the first step anyway.

Believe it or not, my intro to MA came from cardio boxing. I started doing that class years ago (this was pre Tae Bo) because it looked like fun, the workout was brutal and it seemed more "manly" than aerobics. From that, I got into real boxing, then kickboxing, then BJJ, then JKD and thru that Kali, etc. For a lot of people, this could be their first, non-threatening intro to martial arts.

My interest in a cardio application is that like you said, I'll bet a lot of the drills just transfer right over. Also, the guy who originally mentioned this hear said that women took to it pretty easily--the sticks and the drills, whereas a lot of women don't take to punching too easily. And 90% of cardio classes are women.

So yeah, if it's crap I want nothing to do with it and you won't see me trying to push it.

Even though cardio classes are clearly not for fighting, I still get absolutely bent when I see obviously non-boxing instructors making up sheet that is just ridiculous. You can strive to keep it as "real" as possible, cardio or not...

quietanswer · 11-07-2000, 04:38 PM

yeah, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I didn't mean to seem so dead against the idea, if that's how I came off..and I'm not surprised you found a start in cardio boxing, as I've considered taking them before myself, to support my boxing habit.. i was just pointing out the negative side. that's all.

i'd be curious to hear what you find out about this as time goes on..

Chad W. Getz · 11-07-2000, 06:23 PM

Well, I always tell people to strengthen their grip/forearms/wrist to toyok the stick. You should have seen all the people at the rehab swinging the sticks when my uncle was in the rehab hospital. They all had a kick out of it. Except the nurses, being that my uncle has a bad temper if he doesn't get his way.

Tony10 · 11-21-2000, 03:51 PM

Got my answer yesterday. This instructor from my gym was down in Miami this past week where he took a master class in this "Urban Stickfighting."

He said it was crap, and that's coming from somebody with no MA experience, particularly Kali or Escrima.

They use plastic tubing, not sticks (or even padded sticks) and he said his rotator cuff was killing him the next day. I thought that odd--I've never had any sort of nagging pain from using the sticks--so I asked him to describe what kind of "strikes" they were doing. He showed me, and it was obvious that somebody doesn't know Kali 101.

So, worst fears confirmed!

Chad W. Getz · 02-06-2001, 10:21 PM

So what do you guys think of a guy that has actually stickfought teaching this type of class?

Would it be worth it to go to a class that is functional and repetitious, not just making up "cardio-stickfighting".

Tony, could you tell me more about it if you got any more info.

Would students have to bring their own sticks or would the health club provide it?

K Williams · 02-07-2001, 05:21 AM

Talking about using heavy sticks for strength training....does anyone know if Indian clubs are still being made? They look like large bowling pins.

11-06-2000, 05:00 PM	#1 (permalink)
Tony10 Advanced Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 527 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey guys, was asking about something like this here last summer. Apparently somebody has come up with an exercise-only program using the sticks, much like how cardio-boxing sprang from boxing. Back then, I forgot to whom I was speaking, somebody had heard of this and said somebody was putting together a videotape. As it turns out, an instructor with whom I work is attending a fitness convention in Florida this month where he will be taking an "urban stickfighting" class, which sounds like what I was asking about. Why am I asking? A) I would like to bring something like this to the gym where I work, B) however, I also shudder to think about how lame this could potentially be, as I have have seen painfully obvious non-boxers teach "boxing" at many gyms, including where I work. What do you hear? __________________ Are you not entertained?!

11-06-2000, 08:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
Chad W. Getz Advanced Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Honolulu Posts: 509 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I personally don't do much weight training, other than sparatic dumbell lifting here and there, except for swinging my iron bars and lots of stick work. Now I'm not Lou Ferigno, but it has increased my tone on bicep, tricep, forearm(inside and outside), shoulder, neck, back, and traps, as well as increased my gripping strength. Sounds pretty good. __________________ Chad W. Getz Full Contact Hawaii - http://www.fullcontacthi.com Stickfighting Digest - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stickfighting The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up. The clinching arts imply the clinch can stop the striker from striking, and the grappler from taking it to the ground. The weapon arts imply the they can stop the unarmed man. A complete martial art implies any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere.

11-06-2000, 08:29 PM	#3 (permalink)
Tony10 Advanced Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 527 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Oh, I know. Hitting the heavy bags, too, is quite a workout with the sticks. __________________ Are you not entertained?!

11-07-2000, 04:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
quietanswer Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Saint Louis, Missouri, USA Posts: 377 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	hm. stickfighting does tone one up, but so does jump roping. i say if cardio stickfighting happens, I'd like for it to be more than just exercise. I mean, think about it.. stickfighting the way WE do it is cardio exercise too..so why change it to get a cardio effect from it? you know? I don't see a reason for cardio-stickfighting classes to teach anything different than a standard kali/arnis/escrima class would.. at least, no different from a GOOD fma class... one that makes you work. the term cardio stickfighting just sounds like it means "less fight applicable stick movements"..and if that's the case, I say put it away with the tae bo videos and let's go beat each other up. however, it doesn't bother me. let Joe Suburbs think he's a stickfighter, if that's the fantasy he wants. the whole world can be overconfident, for all I care. it gives me an advantage __________________ ------------------------------------------------ *St Louis MMA Club for Boxing / Clinch / Grappling Training* *www.stlouistrainingcircle.com*

11-07-2000, 04:31 PM	#5 (permalink)
Tony10 Advanced Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 527 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well, I know what you mean. Nobody likes to see something watered down and fed to the masses a la Tae Bo. The McDonald's-ization of said martial art. However, it doesn't have to be that way. I teach cardio boxing twice a week and I can assure you that every combo or kick I use is legit--no fancy dance moves or crap that doesn't flow. True, you're not learning how to fight, but you are conceivably learning technique, which is the first step anyway. Believe it or not, my intro to MA came from cardio boxing. I started doing that class years ago (this was pre Tae Bo) because it looked like fun, the workout was brutal and it seemed more "manly" than aerobics. From that, I got into real boxing, then kickboxing, then BJJ, then JKD and thru that Kali, etc. For a lot of people, this could be their first, non-threatening intro to martial arts. My interest in a cardio application is that like you said, I'll bet a lot of the drills just transfer right over. Also, the guy who originally mentioned this hear said that women took to it pretty easily--the sticks and the drills, whereas a lot of women don't take to punching too easily. And 90% of cardio classes are women. So yeah, if it's crap I want nothing to do with it and you won't see me trying to push it. Even though cardio classes are clearly not for fighting, I still get absolutely bent when I see obviously non-boxing instructors making up sheet that is just ridiculous. You can strive to keep it as "real" as possible, cardio or not... __________________ Are you not entertained?!

11-07-2000, 04:38 PM	#6 (permalink)
quietanswer Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Saint Louis, Missouri, USA Posts: 377 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	yeah, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I didn't mean to seem so dead against the idea, if that's how I came off..and I'm not surprised you found a start in cardio boxing, as I've considered taking them before myself, to support my boxing habit.. i was just pointing out the negative side. that's all. i'd be curious to hear what you find out about this as time goes on.. __________________ ------------------------------------------------ *St Louis MMA Club for Boxing / Clinch / Grappling Training* *www.stlouistrainingcircle.com*

11-07-2000, 06:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
Chad W. Getz Advanced Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Honolulu Posts: 509 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well, I always tell people to strengthen their grip/forearms/wrist to toyok the stick. You should have seen all the people at the rehab swinging the sticks when my uncle was in the rehab hospital. They all had a kick out of it. Except the nurses, being that my uncle has a bad temper if he doesn't get his way. __________________ Chad W. Getz Full Contact Hawaii - http://www.fullcontacthi.com Stickfighting Digest - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stickfighting The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up. The clinching arts imply the clinch can stop the striker from striking, and the grappler from taking it to the ground. The weapon arts imply the they can stop the unarmed man. A complete martial art implies any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere.

11-21-2000, 03:51 PM	#8 (permalink)
Tony10 Advanced Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 527 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Got my answer yesterday. This instructor from my gym was down in Miami this past week where he took a master class in this "Urban Stickfighting." He said it was crap, and that's coming from somebody with no MA experience, particularly Kali or Escrima. They use plastic tubing, not sticks (or even padded sticks) and he said his rotator cuff was killing him the next day. I thought that odd--I've never had any sort of nagging pain from using the sticks--so I asked him to describe what kind of "strikes" they were doing. He showed me, and it was obvious that somebody doesn't know Kali 101. So, worst fears confirmed! __________________ Are you not entertained?!

02-06-2001, 10:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
Chad W. Getz Advanced Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Honolulu Posts: 509 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	So what do you guys think of a guy that has actually stickfought teaching this type of class? Would it be worth it to go to a class that is functional and repetitious, not just making up "cardio-stickfighting". Tony, could you tell me more about it if you got any more info. Would students have to bring their own sticks or would the health club provide it? __________________ Chad W. Getz Full Contact Hawaii - http://www.fullcontacthi.com Stickfighting Digest - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stickfighting The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up. The clinching arts imply the clinch can stop the striker from striking, and the grappler from taking it to the ground. The weapon arts imply the they can stop the unarmed man. A complete martial art implies any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere.

02-07-2001, 05:21 AM	#10 (permalink)
K Williams Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: USA Posts: 72 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Indian Clubs? Talking about using heavy sticks for strength training....does anyone know if Indian clubs are still being made? They look like large bowling pins. __________________ K. Williams

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