Go Back   Deluxe Martial Arts Forums > Training > Fitness, Nutrition and Training Forum

Fitness, Nutrition and Training Forum What's the best way to get in shape? What are the best supplements? Find out on our Fitness Forum.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-27-2008, 12:01 AM   #1 (permalink)
Excessive Moderator
 
eXcessiveForce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,658
eXcessiveForce is a glorious beacon of lighteXcessiveForce is a glorious beacon of lighteXcessiveForce is a glorious beacon of lighteXcessiveForce is a glorious beacon of lighteXcessiveForce is a glorious beacon of light
Default Breaking it down, to improve

For many this is common sense, but I thought I'd share for those who may not have had the benefit of having it shown to them or who haven't discovered it from themselves.

Most people here know their are different ranges of combat. Some people choose to specialize in one range while others seek to round out all the ranges. The idea for being effective in an altercation is of course to be able to flow seamlessly from one range to another, integrating their entire skill set.

So I like many started working on integrating my skill set through the ranges. After several years I've found that the overall package improved significantly, but then I realized something. the sum was not greater than the parts. In fact it was less.

When we trained only hand work, our skills improved. Eventually we all stalemated and training started to drag a bit. So we moved on and added another range, and then another and then another. So As we improved on the base, by adding ranges to it, we got better, but as a byproduct we got worse.

After a long time of integrated sparring one day we went back to hands only and guess what. It sucked. Timing was off, easy shots got through that would never have landed a few years before.

So what the heck happened? Well it's simple we didn't break it down. Hands only forced us to constantly improve our hands, but when kicks were thrown in, kicks improved, and integrated with hands, but the hands in a stand alone environment lost precision. So while our combat effectiveness went up, our actually ability with a particular tool in a particular range decreased.

Or simply by becoming better fighters, we became worse boxers.

So the answer (which was known previously but somehow managed to escape our collective experience) was it is a mistake to only train with every tool in an integrated fashion. You need to break it down. Train sometimes with only kicks, other times with only hands. Others only ground. Work just throws, work on defense only, work offense only. Only by breaking down the parts and training them can we improve the parts that we then combine again into the whole.

By breaking it down, each tool is honed, and over time this leads to the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.
__________________
eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.
eXcessiveForce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2008, 09:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Michael Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 888
Michael Wright is just really niceMichael Wright is just really niceMichael Wright is just really niceMichael Wright is just really niceMichael Wright is just really nice
Default

Very interesting thoughts, and from my experience I fully agree.

JKD (I know you weren’t talking about JKD per say, but just to offer my example) has always credited itself with the ability to flow through the ranges. I spent a lot of time, certainly in my early years, focussing on the flow and blend from weapons to kickboxing to boxing to trapping to grappling. It feels great to flow like that and it is a very effective way to train a vast amount of material efficiently.

I stopped one day and thought, hang on, am I actually any good at any of this? If I walked into a Boxing gym tomorrow would I get handed my arse, or a Thai gym, or a BJJ gym etc. Now I know people say that’s not the point, we aren’t trying to be Boxers or Thai Boxers, we just need to know their game so we can flow and counter. But I just somehow didn’t buy that. If you are only as strong as your weakest individual link, then surely my game wasn’t strong at all. It looked good, and it felt good, but was it all an illusion built from training with our guys, our way, all playing along?

About 8 years ago I realised that my grappling sucked. I had a base in BJJ and could handle a bit of ground in the overall chain, but as am individual link it was very weak. I spent 2 to 3 years making grappling my sole personal focus, training with people like Erik Paulson and some good BJJ and Ne waza guys. Its still not great, I’m just not really a grappler, but when I came back to the blend I was much stronger for it. About 5 years ago I went back to the beginning with my Thai and absorbed myself in that art again, at one point spending a year on nothing else but Thai. My overall game benefited enormously. At the start of last year I walked into a Boxing gym, started again from scratch, and realised that I knew nothing about Boxing. That’s the learning curve I am in right now, and I’m sure will be for some years.

I guess to support your experiences of breaking down each element Excessive my point is this: I still love to blend and mix and flow through the arts, the point is that I’m trying to build a chain made of strong links, steel as opposed to paper. I realise now that you need to be very careful in JKD, or any similar concept that quickly encourages a wide mix, blend and flow. It may look great, it may feel great, and may offer the illusion of being very complete. If you aren’t careful it can be just that - an illusion. I think lots of people hide behind their “street effectiveness” as a reason why they don’t need to enter each world in depth, it’s the old line of “we know their game and we counter it”. From looking at the good Grapplers, Thai Boxers and Boxers I have met – I think my “blend” of old would have serious problems getting anywhere near these guys. The simple reason being, no matter how good it all may look, they have been through the war - and I have just been playing Army.
Michael Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2008, 12:59 AM   #3 (permalink)
Excessive Moderator
 
eXcessiveForce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,658
eXcessiveForce is a glorious beacon of lighteXcessiveForce is a glorious beacon of lighteXcessiveForce is a glorious beacon of lighteXcessiveForce is a glorious beacon of lighteXcessiveForce is a glorious beacon of light
Default

I think blending is very important, But like you, it just seems when try to do everything at once over the long term things get left out. Skills degrade.

My training is very odd, I don't do drills, I only spar. Seems my brain can't wrap itself around the idea of doing the same things over and over without the proper stimulus. So as I spar, I find myself working on only high percentage techniques, the ones I'd really use, But I have found that by going back, some old stuff that wasn't considered as high percentage at the time are now much more usable in a live environment.
__________________
eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.
eXcessiveForce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2008, 10:51 AM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Michael Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 888
Michael Wright is just really niceMichael Wright is just really niceMichael Wright is just really niceMichael Wright is just really niceMichael Wright is just really nice
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce View Post
IMy training is very odd, I don't do drills, I only spar.
I don't think that is odd at all sir. There is simply nothing better for learning and development than putting the gloves on and facing a live opponent. In my opinion.

Drills are there to swell curriculums which swell classes which swell bank accounts. In my opinion.
Michael Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2008, 06:57 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Tom Yum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Here and there.
Posts: 11,174
Tom Yum is a splendid one to beholdTom Yum is a splendid one to beholdTom Yum is a splendid one to beholdTom Yum is a splendid one to beholdTom Yum is a splendid one to beholdTom Yum is a splendid one to behold
Default

EF,

When I was training boxing/muaythai/grappling - I could only maintain other ranges while slowly improving on one, so that makes sense.

For me progress was slower since I had to maintain kicking, punching, clinching and grappling while working on another.

When you're focused on one thing and one thing alone you can make major progress, the only problem is that you loose out on everything else.

You either become a pretty good, well rounded fighter or a very focused, single range fighter.
__________________
The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know. Slow is fast; fast is slow.

Love it, leave it or fix it.
Tom Yum is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best way to improve your reflexes? scors77 Fitness, Nutrition and Training Forum 21 03-26-2008 07:53 AM
Need tips on how to improve endurance edisav Fitness, Nutrition and Training Forum 7 11-08-2006 05:38 PM
Could the UFC improve fan ratings???? Hardball Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) & BJJ Forum 2 07-28-2006 09:04 AM
How to improve kicks? blitz Thaiboxing and Kickboxing 16 11-11-2005 03:23 AM
How to Improve Side Kick? Ripley Fitness, Nutrition and Training Forum 1 07-15-2003 03:14 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5
Template-Modifications by TMS
© Copyright 1996-2003, Mousel's Self-Defense Academy