Tant01

A PAGE OUT OF INDONESIAN MARTIAL ARTS HISTORY; PENCAK SILAT SERAK.

Maha Guru Victor de Thouars, interviewed by reporter Steve Gartin, for Fighting Knives/Street Fighter magazine.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill.../victorfc.html


Required reading...It's a small silat world.

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While the old form, jujutsu, was studied solely for fighting purposes, Kano's new system is found to promote the mental as well as the physical faculties.

T. Shidachi, 1892

HtTKar

Finally an Indonesian section

I actually have this artical printed and in a folder. There's a lot of good stuff in here. There are also some things that I find very hard to believe. So read this and take it with a grain of salt.

Just remember that
A) its one guys opinion (Victor de Thouars).
And B) that William de Thouars himself has disowned the de Thouars brothers (Maurice, Paul, and Victor)
http://www.willemdethouars.com/images/WillemLetter1.pdf

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"The harder you train, the harder it is to surrender"
(Vince Lombardi)

BoarSpear

ITS DEAD #@%* ....

Maybe you'll take pity on us and cut and paste it?

HtTKar

Only problem is that the letter is 8 pages long and in pdf format.

Another way to find it is to go to William de Thouars homepage.


http://www.willemdethouars.com/

Right below his picture are his letters
Read the one titled The de Thouars brothers

or the one titled de Thouars HighHorse

Actually both should be read. I dont know when these were first put on the website. I dont remember them being there last year. But you can see now that their relationship is very very bitter.

We all have to agree that especially in Indonesian arts there is alot of politics involved. So any information I read I try to remember, but not fully believe.


Another example of politics and why this needs to be taken with a grain of salt. In the article on Victor there is a letter in there supposedly from Master Reeders stating that he never heard of Willie Wetzel. Victor stated that he translated this from Dutch to English to be read.

This letter was included in this artical to discredit Wetzel...but Reeders didnt know Victor either. Just because Reeders didnt know everyone, doesnt mean they made their art up out of thin air.
Now if you know who Grand Master Sikes is...he learned Karate from Master Reeders...but actually learned his Indonesian art from Willie Wetzel. http://www.nasda.net/gmhistory.htm

What I'm trying to say is that there are probably hundreds of thousands of variations on Silat. Just because everyone didnt learn their art from the same master and grow up in the same village doesnt mean their art holds no value. It doesnt make them frauds.

__________________
"The harder you train, the harder it is to surrender"
(Vince Lombardi)

HtTKar

http://www.combat-silat.net/silatnow...ticle&record=2

This I feel is part of the problem. These arts are very isolated. Its not uncommon for teachers to constantly be on the move and even students under the same teacher may never meet eachother. Martial arts are alot about personal expression. the artical by victor makes it seem like if you do not emulate his teacher, or him to the "T" then you have learned a fake art. Everyones different, and everyone fights differently.

__________________
"The harder you train, the harder it is to surrender"
(Vince Lombardi)

BoarSpear

I dont think thats what he was trying to say. I think he was saying that only through studying as many people who teach a a style as possible can you understand its true essance...everyone expresses these arts differently, if you see enough people teaching the same concept, eventually one of them will "click" with your own build and personality...its about grasping more than just the hair of the beast.

jeff5

The letters are fairly recent. My advice, ignore the politics and focus on the arts. What Willem (Kuntao Silat), Victor (Serak), and Paul (Bukti Negara but essentially Serak), teach are all excellent.

Kungfoolery

Silat gets way too ridiculously political at times.