Nothingness

Anyone belive in the effectiveness of these katas? How often do you train them?

brokenelbow

Kata aren't effective but they contain some things that are.

__________________
The crap that many schools do is not the crap I was taught or train in or teach.

Damnit... it made sense when it was running through my head.

DM

cakegirl

I don't know about the effectiveness of them, although I have heard there is some good grappling bunkai in there.

All I know is, after learning Tekki1 and Tekki2, there was NO WAY Tekki3 would stay in my brain.

Cakegirl

__________________

Toudiyama[NL]

Am I glad we only had Naihanchi 1 also only Kushanku (no Dai and Sho)
And only 1 bassai
(9 basic kata like pinan 1-5, Kushanku, Naihanchi, Chinto en Seishan)
glad we didn't have more than 15 in total (not counting Kihon kata which is a mere excercise)
Naihanchi seems to be infighting, don't know about sanchin and Tensho

__________________

Dixon

My instructor teaches all 3 Naihanchi's. I sure love them. They are quick and to the point; I'm parrying, taking out your leg, then striking to the head.

Tensho is nice to know, I see it as "these are some options if you have wrist control" Atleast all the bunkai are easily understandible.

Sanchin...sigh....i would love to say its magical but its just a kata that makes me sweat. The bunkai seems kinda lame IMO. I really only do this kata when i'm tired and need to be sharp.

Nothingness

I believe in practicing my "katas". I believe that breaking them down for the usage, while practing them with power, will develop your skills. I am not practicing Karate, but I am particulary interested in those katas I mentioned before. I see them as very simple, but "pure" and very deadly if properly developed.

Thai Bri

Horse shit.

Dixon

And we would like to thank thai bri for stopping by and letting everyone know what he is full of. Thank you, good night!

Jitsu

Man I hate Katas, I know they refocus you on basics but damn I hate them. I feel like Im in dance class. But of course while your doing them you do them with enthusiam.

__________________
The more I sweat in the Dojo the less I bleed in the street.

old skool dude

I practice Tensho and Sanchin regularly. I would say they are effective for centering me, and also act as a bridge to tradition. Having read most of the posts whenever a subject like this comes up, folk always argue about the "effectiveness" of it. If they deem it not effective for full contact ring fighting, then they throw it out as useless. I simply dont hold this view. For me, tradition is important. I've heard it said that we dont just stand on our own two feet,but we do indeed stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before us. I know my sensei, Sam Magee, who taught me Goju in Harlem, did so, not out of financial gain, for for fame and name recognition, but he did so because he wanted to offer something to inner city youth to help them with the pain they often experienced in their daily lives. He taught traditionally emphasizing that you were NOT a complete martial artist if you did forms only and did not fight, or vice versa. Kumite and KATA were both equally important aspects of the way he instructed us. In those early days we did not have the "luxury" of fighting with gloves, and rounds, and rules... instead, we fought full contact with no gloves, or even headgear, and even inspite of this, there were very few injuries. He taught us in this way out of respect for his instructor, Leon Wallace, who taught him, the same way that his instructor, Peter Urban did.
For me to discard kata practice is to "piss on" the memory and sacrifice of my sensei who sacrificed much to give me something that made me a better human being.
Thats my two cents.

old skool dude

One true story I forgot, and it's how practicing Sanchin and Tensho saved my life.
I am an asthmatic and have had upper respitory problems for much of my life. While medication is able to keep it under control, there have been times when I did not have my meds or couldnt afford treatment.

Asthma seems like a harmless condition, but people do honestly die from this, and if few things are personally more horrifying than literally not being able to breathe.

During one particular bad episode, I noticed that I was not taking in enough air adn belt that someone was quite literally sitting on my chest and squeezing me rib cage. I began to panic and noticed that felt lightheaded and felt like I was going to black out.

I remember centering myself, concentrated on my lower abdomin and started the deep abdominal breathing that is particular to both katas. I went throgh the movements as well and noticed to my surprise that I began to slowly calm down, the sense of panic began to leave, and gradually my breathing got easier.
At that particular time, my life was literally on the line. I was not breathing, and due to the grace of God, and by doing two simple katas, I was able to calm down, lower my pressure, expand my lungs, and stablize my breathing.

Thai Bri

At least you're not trying to make a case to say they help you learn how to fight.

By the way - I'm not interested in sports fighting / kumite etc. I am interested in saving my neck in a real go.

Dixon - not the best put down on the net. On the level of "poo poo off", or less.

old skool dude

[quote=Thai Bri]At least you're not trying to make a case to say they help you learn how to fight.

By the way - I'm not interested in sports fighting / kumite etc. I am interested in saving my neck in a real go.
Bri, I'm curious, and I ask you this question respectfully because I dont know you personally and cant make a value judgement...
having said that I do notice that you seem to view various so called "traditional" methods are non sense, etc. and always emphasize the fighting aspect.
I can respect that, if that is your goal for studying the arts.
My question to you is, How much is too much? You stated, that you are interested in saving your neck in a real go. I suspect that if gaining that type of knowledge is what's important to you, that you've probably surpassed that goal a long time ago. So called, "real fights" as you know, I'm sure, are incredible quick, brutal affairs that only last a few minutes. Their success or failure is determined by a number of factors including who is able to get in the inital strike/counterstrike who is more aware, who is the most aggressive, and in some cases who has the most effective techiques in their arsenal PLUS the WILLINGNESS to put them into play. Many a martial artist has lost a fight due to their inability to bring their weapons into play, and many a street fighter wins because of his ability to do so. I have no doubt again, that you probably have already reached a level where you are able to do that, my question for you is...What's next?
Do you live in a rough area where you MUST BE combat ready or consistantly be in a heightened state of readiness?
I have friends who have served in the military and in law eforcement who will attest that being in this state for prolonged periods of time is counterproductive and unhealthy for an individual regardless of their level of skill.
It seems to me that we as martial artists might spend SO much time training for that inevitable street encounter that we fail to develop other parts of our personality. Traditional arts help to bring that balance. Even the Samurai warriors who made a "pact with death" practiced arts such as the tea ceromony to help balance them. I have even read stories where a samurai's skill could be tested by how well he performed the tea ceromony.
Just some thoughts, not a lecture, How do you respond?

brokenelbow

Five chubby bobbies and only one scone. There can be only one and it will be Bri!

__________________
The crap that many schools do is not the crap I was taught or train in or teach.

Damnit... it made sense when it was running through my head.

DM

Thai Bri

Nice one. But I am offended by the word "chubby". I am fat and proud of it.......

OSD - that was a pretty good post. I have no issue if people want to learn ancient ritualised movements for the sake of tradition etc. But I do have an issue when millions of people have been deceived into thinking they have been learning how to defend themselves - and, of course, paying many a hard earned dollar or pound etc. to do so. They end up with empty pockets and broken bones. Or worse.

As for me reaching some kind of level? I have no doubt that I can fight as well now as I have ever been able to. But there is always someone tougher out there. I want to be as read as I can when that guy, and his mates, choose to do something nasty to a person I love (including me).

I do other past times as well you know. I don't think you have to devopte your life to this stuff. Just ensure that people are not being deceived. They are NOT learning how to defend themselves when they are taught Kata. But how many instructors out there make sure they know?