Cross_Trainer

Hello. I live in a small town, and my options are very limited. There are only five or six martial arts schools in my area (the only other arts on offer, aside from karate, which I am currently doing, are jujitsu, judo, and a cardio kickboxing class at the YMCA) at least three are blatant mcdojos ("family friendly" and "get in shape while learning the art of self-defense" type slogans tipped me off to this). Right now I am studying at a Goshin-Jutsu Karate school, and have been for about eight months now. I am unsure of whether it is a mcdojo or not, since it seems to have some characteristics that do match and some that don't. (my primary motivation is self-defense). On one hand:

1. It costs money to get new belt rankings, do various seminars, etc.
2. We spend a lot of time doing kata, and need to learn a kata to get a promotion
3. We have many children who are up to purple belt (our ranking goes white, yellow, green, purple, brown, 1st dan) but none higher than this. Several of these children are definitely not qualified.

However, on the other hand:

1. One of the students there fought in the world competition for Goshin Jutsu karate in Russia, and won second place (he beat the guy who played Darth Maul in star wars)
2. Our sensei has been doing this for over thirty years, so he isn't one of those 1st/2nd degree blackbelt teachers
3. Our school always does well in tournaments, for what that's worth (small benefit maybe, but not much)
4. Our blackbelts seem to be generally pretty qualified (the test includes getting hit full-force in the stomach, for instance, and they have been doing it for at least 5-15 years before 1st dan)
5. Promotion is generally slow. I am a whitebelt after eight months (w/ the little yellow stripes on it) and I have progressed much faster than most other people who entered at the same time. The sensei's own son is only green thus far.
6. Our sensei also has taught several other people in other towns with their own Goshin-Jutsu schools
7. He also privately teaches some of the harder-core stuff (like ripping out cheeks, eye gouges, etc.) and things like hand conditioning

From these it seems that the school has turned to the mcdojo aspects to make money, but that there is some promise for those who actually do want to learn rather than just get a pretty-looking belt. Am I correct in this assumption?

Thanks for your help.

eXcessiveForce

who cares?


Have you learned anything that you have found valuable?
Have you improved in the time you were there?
Does the training meet your specific goals?
Are you passing up better training to attend this school?
Are people who are unable to demostrate proficency in the art wearing blackbelts and teaching classes?


There are no set rules for Mcdojos. The idea is that they are cookie cutter high volume places. 20 new people a month, 1 stays but that's okay because 20 new ones will be in on monday. Everyone is happy because there is no work involved. Rank is handed out to anyone.

Just because it costs money doesn't make it a McDojo. Just because the training sucks doesn't make it a McDojo.

When your instructor asks if you want fries with your belt, then it's a mcdojo.

__________________
eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

Hardball

Man, you guys are killing me with this hilarious "MCDOJO TALK" That's a new one on me. LMAO "MC Dojo" Too much!!!!!

__________________
The Way of the Warrior is Practice. Daily practice, accumulate practice minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day. {Book of 5 Rings} Mike Brewers 2008 Sit up challenge 26,000/100,000 running balance.(Crunches) Kicks 6,000/100,000

47MartialMan

McDojo has been around for some time:

The term “McDojo” is used to describe a martial arts school where profit is of a higher importance than technical standards. In other words, it is generally used to refer to a school that aims for profit over the quality of teaching. McDojos are often part of a franchise. A “McDojo” is a school that teaches martial arts as a business, the creator’s and staff’s goal is only or mainly for money. This in itself should turn one away - because a teacher who teaches only for money cares very little, if at all, for the style or for his students.

Such schools often:
Has an instructor who has recently acquired a rank of black belt or higher, and held it for less than 3 years. Or a self-proclaimed instructor who randomly studied martial arts without conviction to complete any one. Thus said instructor, decided to open a “Martial Art Business”

Binding contracts when you join, with high up front training fees, high testing fees (belt/rank/grading) and the use of collection agencies to collect any remaining fees if a student quits before the contract term is up.

Any school that promises a Black Belt in under 3 years or routinely produces Black Belts in 2 years.

Any school which seems to have many young or inexperienced experts (usually “Black Belts” or “Dan ranks”)

Any school recently made the news, noteworthy because they had just promoted a three year old toddler to “Black Belt” and they had a five year old child as a 2nd Dan (second degree) “Black Belt.”

Belt Factory is a derogatory term for a Martial Arts school where there are a seemingly endless number of grades for students to progress through. Actual ability is not a requirement for progression through these grades, only a willingness to pay the high ‘grading’ or ‘grade registration’ fees.
It is easy to spot this type of place. Things like promised black belts in so many months, a large population of children (especially with high ranking status), a mandatory contract to pay for so many months of training, and a teacher or owner who tries to sell you on his contract and school are all things that are common in Mcodojos. You will find yourself paying a lot more for a lot less at a place like this.

In short, a McDojo is a school that sells a poor product, often at a high price, and endeavors to ensure that the students never learn that the product is deeply flawed. Often they use a ‘Creed’ or Code of Behaviour that the students must abide by to achieve this, wherein ‘don’t use your skills’ is given much emphasis.

Hardball

I like RUFFHOUSE Dojos......................

__________________
The Way of the Warrior is Practice. Daily practice, accumulate practice minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day. {Book of 5 Rings} Mike Brewers 2008 Sit up challenge 26,000/100,000 running balance.(Crunches) Kicks 6,000/100,000

Jeremy Lobdell

One man's McDojo is another man's fountain of continual knowledge!

__________________
"If you want to learn to fight, you must practice fighting against someone who is fighting back!" Burton Richardson

Hardball

I'll have to ponder that. Something to think about.

__________________
The Way of the Warrior is Practice. Daily practice, accumulate practice minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day. {Book of 5 Rings} Mike Brewers 2008 Sit up challenge 26,000/100,000 running balance.(Crunches) Kicks 6,000/100,000

47MartialMan

Hey-there are "some" benefits from McDojos....

medic06

Well, there are a few people who do the McDojo thing as a way to pay the bills while they continue with their own real training. What they teach in class (or have someone teach for them) is not what they train. They usually have just a few students who are learning the real deal, all the others are just learning crap.

HtTKar

Few people realize how expensive it can be to run a dojo. The instructors have to work full time there, they usually dont have time for a second job. You need floor mats which cost 1000's of dollars. Training equipment, bathrooms, etc. You need to be able to accomidate people. Most of the people that attend are learning very little. They're in it because their parents put them there, or some other shallow reason. They wont take it as serious, they will never be as disciplined, and they will never be the best martial artist. But these people are needed to support the dojo and provide all the necessary equipment to the people that actually deserve to be there. Most dojos can not survive without these kinds of people.

Saying that. I think the difference is how much work the instructors put forth towards developing the truly devoted students. The devoted students can learn everything that can be learned elsewhere, and can study in class. Not everyone has to be at an equal skill level. Its funny because everyone expects Martial art instructors to teach them a couple things for free. "Show me this" etc. Most Martial Arts instructors are among the most professional people in society. It takes more years to be an instructor than it takes to get a doctorates degree. But noone would walk right up to a doctor and ask them for some medicine...they expect to get robbed.

Do you live in PA, or western NY? I only ask because you stated Goshin Jutsu.

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"The harder you train, the harder it is to surrender"
(Vince Lombardi)

47MartialMan

I am not sayong someone should not receive money to pay the bills....

It is just that teachers of McDojos, do not realize they are.

Also many open a school moments after getting the coveted black belt...

so instead of expanding their knowledge, they are tempted to go into business and make a living...which is why they wanted the coveted rank to begin with.

Garland

**** yeah there are, more money in circulation, and more people being trained shit that they THINK will work better than curling into a fetal position and kissing their ass good-bye....he he he. I LOVE McDojo tough guys, gives me the opportunity to claim I've kicked the **** out of alot more black belts.

__________________
I kick you in da neck!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBHLrpn07G4
http://www.break.com/movies/englishf.html

homo homini lupus

Komm Susser Todd.

No, no...no no no...whatever you are drinking, you need much, much more...and then to sleep. - jubaji

Garland

perfect example...I went down to a USSD school while I was training for my first thai fight because I tought the other guy might have a karate background....ha....what a fucking joke, I went for two out of three free classes, the second one I went to they're instructor told me flat out that they couldn't teach me anything, and that I shouldn't go there.
I guess he was upset cuz' I knocked him over when he was holding one of those shitty wave master bags (sand filled) for me to kick with a thai round kick and left a shin print in his bag.

I'm tempted to try and go back and bribe their asses for a black belt so I can compete in karate kumite...with Thai boxing/JKD/MMA and FMA techniques...oh yes....IPPON-ESH....see how they like cut kicks, the prummb, and elbows.

__________________
I kick you in da neck!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBHLrpn07G4
http://www.break.com/movies/englishf.html

homo homini lupus

Komm Susser Todd.

No, no...no no no...whatever you are drinking, you need much, much more...and then to sleep. - jubaji

47MartialMan

Yeah, but is the MA only for fighting? Only for kicking butt? And, for sure, there are some teachers and practitoners whom are better than others.

medic06

For some people fighting is all there is. Others are looking for something deeper.