Mastah

People here keep saying in order for Judo to "work" that you need to train it without a gi... I'm thinking that this is an incorrect statement.

On the street, unless your attacker is .... unique - to say the least - it is safe to assume that he will be wearing clothes. You can grab clothes the same way you can grab a gi so why would you need to train no-gi for the street?

blitz

.. A gi is much more firm than a tshirt, normal summer/spring clothes will rip when you try to do a choke or a takedown or whatever.

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Tant01

most Judo techniques work just fine without a Gi... or can be adapted to do without much trouble. Reliance on gripping a Gi is not a bad thing in the winter time and even a T-shirt can be used to apply a choke. It will rip if you stretch it too far but you only need so much force to choke a man out. Gather it in your fingers and torque on!

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"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."

James Paterson

medic06

Judo is great!

Mudo

A tshirt would rip ? What kinda tshirts have you been wearing?

But most judo techniques would work without a gi anyway right?

Would a shirt really rip? I still don't understand the need to train without a gi for street purposes.

blitz

Try it, some tshirts get ripped pretty easily. Especially the ones worn in the summer. Perhaps the could work but theres always a small chance it could rip off.

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Mudo

So Judo needs to be trained without a gi to be effective?

blitz

Well you shoud take Tant01's advice on that. Just take Judo you'll be able to adapt whether its a gi or a thsirt or a jacket.

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Tant01

NO! But I have noticed that Judo works better without the mats or crash pads.


Judo is taught in traditional Judo Gi. Techniques that rely on gripping a Gi are less useful in an environment where your attacker(s) are naked. So RELIANCE on a throw that uses clothing for leverage or KUZUSHI is seen as a "BAD THING" by the folks that focus on MMA (where competitors are mostly naked)

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"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."

James Paterson

Mudo

What about when you're outside and the dude has a tshirt on?

So is Judo worth taking if I'm interested in combat?

Tant01

Judo is to fighting what a razor sharp sword is to a club...

No, I think if you want to learn "combat" you should join the Marine Corps!

__________________

"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."

James Paterson

Tant01

Get your butt to Iraq!

__________________

"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."

James Paterson

jubaji

...........................................

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BigRod

It's a good idea to train Judo without the gi.

A gi is made of strong material that doesn't rip or stretch and allows you to have a solid grip for throwing. Take a close look at your Judo gi. It's got an open collar, no buttons, very easy to get a good grip on. It's even got a nice thick lapel made for grabbing. There is excess material on the gi where it hangs from your wrist. Again, perfect for grabbing. Regular collared shirts, T-Shirts and tank tops are completely different.

A collared shirt is designed completely different. If it were unbuttoned, you could probably grab it in the same fashion as a Judo gi. But often collared shirts are worn buttoned up, and now what do you have to grab? Think about it, try it. You'll quickly realize there is no lapel to grab. Also, the sleeves typically have a tighter fit around the wrist. Not impossible to grab, but there is a difference.

Tank tops and t-shirts. Made of cotton, a very flimsy material that will stretch, if not flat out tear. Same problem as the collared shirt, no lapel. Also no sleeves, at all. Grab a friend and try a few throws with them in one. I think you'll find a huge difference when you go to make your throw. The material will stretch while your opponents stands there looking at you.

Now, jackets are another story. They are more like a Judo gi, and you probably can pull off many throws because jackets are made of sturdier material. But you have the same problem as with shirts - no lapel. If the jacket is unzipped/unbutton, great. If not, what kind of grip can you get?

Those are pretty much the reasons why people say you should practice Judo no-gi. I say try it for yourself. Why speculate when a simple experiment will do?

The_Judo_Jibboo

Even if you can't find a club that trains no gi don't let that turn you off from judo. Go, learn in a gi, then get together with a buddy in your backyard and see how it works without a gi. I think you'll be surprised how easily it adapts. A hand gripping the wrist itself usually works as well as gripping the sleeve. As far as a hand on the lapel, it's often just being used to off balance the opponent by applying pressure in one direction. Some throws you'll have to get more creative with to modify effectively but I'd be surprised if you found one that you couldn't adapt to use without a gi.

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"When the enemy comes, welcome him. When he goes, send him on his way."


So the real message here is that in a SD situation you should always take off your trousers...
-jubaji