Mr. Arieson

Can anyone tell me why people in Dojos count like this?

eech
ni
san
shi
go
ro
seech
hach
ku
ju?

I thought it was:

Ichi
ni
san
shi
go
Roku
Shichi
Hachi
ku
ju

The only thing I noticed different is they seem to be leaving the "eee" off at the end, saying "seetch" instead of "seetchee" for instance.

eXcessiveForce

hmmm perhaps

one first
two second
three thrid


just a guess, I don't use japanese.

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aseepish

It's not just in dojos, but that's the way the language is pronounced. Certain vowel sounds aren't pronounced.

Yamashita desu. (I am Yamashita) = "Yamash'ta des'."
Onegai shimasu (please) = "Onegai shimas'"
Merii kurisumasu = "Merii k'ri;s'mas'"

So you get

Ich'
ni
san
shi
go
rokk
sh'ch'
hach'
ku
ju

Kind of like how we say "Gonna, kinda, oughta, goin', doin'" etc.

Ordinal numbers (first, second, third) have "Dai" in front (Dai-ichi, dai-ni, etc.).

Japanese gets scary complicated when you count different types of objects.

Give me one, give me two, give me three for example:

[Hitotsu, futatsu, mitsu] o kudasai.

If you're counting animals (four legged): Ippiki, nihiki, sanbiki
If you're counting rolls (of sushi, or other cylindrical thing): Ippon, nihon, sanbon
If you're counting sheets (of paper, or thin flat thing): Ichimai, nimai, sanmai
People: Hitori, futari, san-nin, yon-nin

And so on. This endeth today's Japanese lesson.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measure_word and http://www.interq.or.jp/japan/se-ino...apanese3_3.htm

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Mr. Arieson

Aseepish, thanks, that totally answers my question.

eXcessiveForce

great reply, it does sound quite complex

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eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

Tom Yum

How many Asian languages do you speak, aseepish?

You seem about equally proficient in Japanese and Mandarin.

Wan ban jie xia pin wei you dushu gao....

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aseepish

I took Mandarin and Japanese at university. I know enough Thai and Korean to survive as a tourist, I can ask where my luggage and wish someone a happy new year in Vietnamese, and I know just enough Tagalog to freak out Filipino people, but I can't say that I truly speak those.

__________________
"It was about that time I realized that searching was my symbol, the emblem of those who go out at night with nothing in mind, the motives of a destroyer of compasses." -Cortázar

Tom Yum

Ok lang.... You've got Asia in your palm. I'd like to pick up Japanese atleast to an intermediate level. I'd also consider Korean, Hindi and Tagalog.

Mabuhay!

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jubaji

Um yeah, but with the dojo counting thing its not simply a matter of standard pronuciation. If a bunch of guys were haulin' a log through the forest or rowing a boat they'd leave out some vowel sounds as well. Not for any other reason than if you are working/winded you abbreviate certain sounds that require greater aspiration. If a person were counting off numbers in a non physically-trying context he/she would not reduce the pronuciation as above.

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Mr. Arieson

That also makes sense. Usually, the counting happens in the initial stretching part of our session. I even get winded during that part!

Toudiyama[NL]

sorry Jujabi but as far as I remembver from my japanese lessons aseepish
is right

It can even become worse watakushi is pronounced wata'shi and has nothing to do with being winded

From what I remember the U is mute and the i is more swallowed


I have one question, in some Dojo, they use Yon instead of Shi when doing the count (Kyokushin dojo) but as far as I know Yon is more for 4th then for 4 (yondan, yohonme)
any idea why that is? ( maybe because founder of Kyokushin was korean not japanese??)

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jubaji

Actually, that particular case is a matter of the level of politeness you want to use.

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jubaji

Don't take my word for it. Go find a native speaker of Japanese not involved in a strenuous activity and ask them to count to ten for you. You will see what I mean about this counting issue right away.

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jubaji

There are different ways to pronounce certain numbers, like four and seven.

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aseepish

Jubaji has a good point. The last syllable in ichi, roku, shichi etc... IS pronounced under normal circumstances, it just isn't voiced as strongly.

Watashi and Watakushi are two different words. Watakushi is very formal. Even Watashi is considered formal for men. One of my Japanese managers told me that if a guy uses watashi in an informal situation "It makes me want to cover my asshole"! Boku or Ore is preferred.

Shi (four) sounds the same as shi (death), so we have yo/yon (four).
Shichi (seven) is a bit difficult to pronounce, so we have nana (seven).

Counting things does generally use yo/yon: four people - yonin, four minutes yonpun, etc.

__________________
"It was about that time I realized that searching was my symbol, the emblem of those who go out at night with nothing in mind, the motives of a destroyer of compasses." -Cortázar