elliotNess

The longer I train the more confused I get. Can anyone really explain the difference between Judo and Japanese Jujitsu?

JkD187

www.judoinfo.com will explain all...you just have to look and im lazy right now.

__________________
Shooto Or Die.

7r14ngL3Ch0k3

You see, when studying BJJ, Judo and wrestling will help you with takedowns, throws, and other stuff. But how can traditional JJ help you better your BJJ? Can it? or is BJJ basically normal JJ? Now im confused. ??????

Hardball

Someone told me last week that judo does not have wrist locks. Is that true?

__________________
The Way of the Warrior is Practice. Daily practice, accumulate practice minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day. {Book of 5 Rings} Mike Brewers 2008 Sit up challenge 30,000/100,000 running balance.(Crunches) Kicks 6,300/100,000

The_Judo_Jibboo

that's true for competition, i don't know as much about what's preserved in the forms as i would like to though.

__________________
"When the enemy comes, welcome him. When he goes, send him on his way."


So the real message here is that in a SD situation you should always take off your trousers...
-jubaji

The_Judo_Jibboo

Well I can't really tell you how much JJJ would help your BJJ because I haven't trained in BJJ. What I can tell you is that BJJ is the grandchild of Japanese Jujitsu. What I mean by that is that Judo was born out of Jujitsu, and BJJ was born out of Judo. The confusion in the name comes from the fact that Mitsuyo Maeda (the guy who taught the Gracie brothers) used the term "jujitsu" to mean "martial arts", but what he was really teaching them was Judo. I've said it before on this forum and I'll say it again: BJJ would be more accurately labelled Brazillian Judo.

__________________
"When the enemy comes, welcome him. When he goes, send him on his way."


So the real message here is that in a SD situation you should always take off your trousers...
-jubaji

Tant01

This might take a while... I type slow!

Judo is the gentle way to learn Jujutsu techniques. The primary difference is in the training methods Kata and Randori. And the impact that the concept of Kuzushi has made on executing techniques. Emphasizing the stage of execution that causes the technique to be (seem) effortless.

Kenji Tomiki put it this way: In this section on the principle of kuzushi (breaking the posture) it will he shown how it is that one is defeated. For in order to make clear the theory of victory one must at the same time know the theory of defeat. The Kodokan Judo found that the principle of the techniques (either with naked fists, or using a weapon like the sword, spear, club, etc.) of the old-school jujutsu consists in breaking the condition of the body which has (already) lost equilibrium. It is called kuzure-no-jotai (state of broken balance). Sometimes the opponent himself loses the balance, and at other times you positively destroy the opponent's balance, leading him to a vulnerable posture. In Judo each technique is analyzed into tsukuri (preparatory action) and kake (attack). Preparatory action is further divided into aite-no-tsukuri (preparing of the opponent) and jibun-no-tsukuri (preparing of self). Preparing of the opponent consists in destroying the opponent's balance before performing a technique and putting him in a posture where it will be easy to apply it. At the same instant the contestant himself must be in a posture and position in which it is easy to apply a technique. This is the preparing of self.

The nicety of judo techniques lies not in the action of performing techniques, but rather in the skill with which the preparing is done as a preliminary. It was the clear-sighted and original idea of the founder of the Kodokan Judo that analyzed the technique which is applied in an instant, and attached importance to the study and practice of preparatory action. In the case of the preparing of the opponent, the theory and practice of the principle of breaking the balance must be studied, while as regards preparing of self it is necessary to study the natural posture and also the theory and practice of ma-ai (space condition). http://judoinfo.com/tomiki.htm#5

If you look at the techniques in BJJ or Judo you will see this common element in action. If it's a sweep from the guard or a hip throw does not matter, the principle of kuzushi is there and we can thank Kano for it!

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While the old form, jujutsu, was studied solely for fighting purposes, Kano's new system is found to promote the mental as well as the physical faculties.

T. Shidachi, 1892

Tant01

Phui... BJJ is Judo Newaza... That's "matwork" for you!

Now drop and give me 50 pushups!

__________________
While the old form, jujutsu, was studied solely for fighting purposes, Kano's new system is found to promote the mental as well as the physical faculties.

T. Shidachi, 1892

Tant01

The short answer is no (not true) You can find kicking and knee strikes, punching, elbow blows, all manner of joint manipulation, headbutts, choking, throwing and even knife and sword techniques in Judo kata.

Sadly the emphasis on Olympic competition has relegated kata to a sideline if it is practiced at all.

Source (Judo info dot com)>>Refrence this Circa 1906 drawing of techniques (#13 shows wrist manipulation)

Attached Images

 

__________________
While the old form, jujutsu, was studied solely for fighting purposes, Kano's new system is found to promote the mental as well as the physical faculties.

T. Shidachi, 1892

The_Judo_Jibboo

Thanks for the cool pic Tant01, I especially like that standing armbar in #5.

__________________
"When the enemy comes, welcome him. When he goes, send him on his way."


So the real message here is that in a SD situation you should always take off your trousers...
-jubaji

danfaggella

HAH, I love those pictures, CRAB SCISSORS is great, and I love the guy who is playin the open gaurd game, thats good stuff and without that drawing there may naver have been the Royler we know.

Good posts Judo Jibbo and Tant.

Triangle, JJJ is not sportive, you may learn certain manipulations and such in JJJ, but many of them are not the kind people can tap out of, they are they kind that you just break and can only do in a quick manner. Generally JJJ is kata-oriented, while BJJ is randori-oriented. Knowing BJJ will make learning JJJ easier, and doing JJJ on the side of you BJJ may allow you to work in different moves and idfferent manipulations, as well as learning the non-sportive side of grappling and close-quarters combat.

Tant01

I prefer the outside varaition of that particular limb destruction. From the inside (as shown) it can be easily defeated.

One of my favorite Judo drawings for sure! Say "Old School"?

__________________
While the old form, jujutsu, was studied solely for fighting purposes, Kano's new system is found to promote the mental as well as the physical faculties.

T. Shidachi, 1892

The_Judo_Jibboo

Know of a link to a picture of that variation? I've never done either, but how I'm picturing an outside version of that lock it seems like it would be very hard to get position. The one in the picture you posted appealed to me because you could try it from a failed throw or even fake a throw to get it. I've gotta try it in randori

__________________
"When the enemy comes, welcome him. When he goes, send him on his way."


So the real message here is that in a SD situation you should always take off your trousers...
-jubaji

7r14ngL3Ch0k3

Ok danfaggella, what are these JJ manipulations that are not the type people can tap out of? I hope youre not talking about wristlocks.

danfaggella

There are countless joint breaks, not all of which can be done in a slow and controlled manner.

And yes, many wrist, finger, and elbow joint breaks are in JJJ, and a great deal of them are done quickly from a standing position, without controlling the opponent and asking him if he wants to tap out.