Flexibility

Nips · 03-09-2007, 09:42 PM

Hey,

I've got a problem at the moment of being seriously limited by my flexibility in Kyokushin Karate. I can make a Mae Geri to the head of someone my own height, but start getting serious balance issues trying to lift a Mawashi Geri much higher than rib cage level just because it's such a stretch to get it up that high. I'm slowly improving my flexibility, but I was wondering if there's any stretching programs anyone could suggest to make my stretching more efficient.

I'd prefer free information obviously ^_^ (Website with a stretching program etc), but if there's a book or DVD that comes highly recommended I'm still interested to hear about it.

Thanks

GranFire · 03-09-2007, 10:24 PM

There is not fast way to improve flexibility. Consistent work is key!

I know it sounds goofy, but Ballet has the best stretching exercises for the legs!

There are numerous books out on stretching (and yoga...) you library probably has a sizable collection of those and DVDs in stock, all free!

**Hardball** · 03-09-2007, 11:02 PM

Just bust there ribs with that roundhouse kick...........if you try for the head they will probably catch your kick and take you down with a vicious sweep thus bust the ribs since you are not naturally flexible.

Nips · 03-09-2007, 11:35 PM

Cheers Granfire - and I genuinely believe you when it comes to ballet having brilliant leg stretching exercises. One of my mates is in my town's production of Cat's, before he started rehearsing, he was nearly as inflexible as me, now 4 months later, he can do the splits.

And Hardball - yeah, I agree with you to a fair extent, but for kickboxing and Kyokushin styled competitions, if you have a poor head kick it's a big disadvantage. For mma - generally head kicks have become improbable, but fighters like Cro Cop have shown that a decent mawashi geri to the head is still a valuable tool to have in your arsenal if used in the right situation. For street, I'd avoid it just because "street" clothes can often restrict your legs, so even if you can make the height, your jeans can't. But just the same, it's good to have there just in case, just because if I happen to be wearing shorts and there's that perfect opening, a decent head kick will bring anyone down.

So do you think yoga books would be the go? (I say yoga over ballet just because I doubt that I'll find a ballet book that deals solely with stretching... if I find one, I will check it out though ^_^) Are there any particular books you'd recommend?

elliotNess · 03-09-2007, 11:48 PM

Try the book dynamic stretching and kicking by Bill Superfoot Wallace.

Nips · 03-10-2007, 07:45 PM

Cheers, I'll look around for it.
How long would you suggest stretching for a day? Can you over do it? Can you get to a point where doing anymore for the day becomes redundant?

Troll Virus · 03-10-2007, 08:49 PM

Hi Nips.
There's some excellent material available online.

Try this; http://www.stadion.com/column.html

Also look into PNF stretching, and run searches on "Pavel"

http://www.dragondoor.com/pavel_bio.html

Hope that's of use to you, though it's always better to bring the head down to your foot, than take your foot up to their head.

To kind of summarise what Kurz is on about though;

When you sleep, all your muscles relax.
When you wake up, the next few hours of your daily routine set limits on what is expected of your muscles and string bits.
e.g. you get out of bed, have breakfast and cycle to work, using very short ranges of muscle movement!

Kurz reccomends, getting up, warming up and dynamically stretching muscles and sinew, so that when you arrive to a training situation later on in the day, you aren't placing your Golgi receptors (the little mini brains at the end of the muscles/tendons) in a situation of panic.

There's a lot more to it than that, but a lot of what he's saying, is that the body can do more than you think it can, but you need to find ways to persuade it.

I'm not going to lay it out on a plate for you though, as researching all of this for yourself has great value, but here's a read for you;

Quote:

From Version: 1.18, Last Modified 94/10/12 Copyright (C) 1993, 1994 by Bradford D. Appleton:

Just as there are different types of flexibility, there are also different types of stretching. Stretches are either dynamic (meaning they involve motion) or static (meaning they involve no motion). Dynamic stretches affect dynamic flexibility and static stretches affect static flexibility (and dynamic flexibility to some degree).

The different types of stretching are:

ballistic stretching
dynamic stretching
active stretching
passive (or relaxed) stretching
static stretching
isometric stretching
PNF stretching

Ballistic Stretching
Ballistic stretching uses the momentum of a moving body or a limb in an attempt to force it beyond its normal range of motion. This is stretching, or "warming up", by bouncing into (or out of) a stretched position, using the stretched muscles as a spring which pulls you out of the stretched position. (e.g. bouncing down repeatedly to touch your toes.) This type of stretching is not considered useful and can lead to injury. It does not allow your muscles to adjust to, and relax in, the stretched position. It may instead cause them to tighten up by repeatedly activating the stretch reflex.

Dynamic Stretching
Dynamic stretching, according to Kurz, "involves moving parts of your body and gradually increasing reach, speed of movement, or both." Do not confuse dynamic stretching with ballistic stretching! Dynamic stretching consists of controlled leg and arm swings that take you (gently!) to the limits of your range of motion. Ballistic stretches involve trying to force a part of the body beyond its range of motion. In dynamic stretches, there are no bounces or "jerky" movements. An example of dynamic stretching would be slow, controlled leg swings, arm swings, or torso twists.

Dynamic stretching improves dynamic flexibility and is quite useful as part of your warm-up for an active or aerobic workout (such as a dance or martial-arts class).

Active Stretching
Active stretching is also referred to as static-active stretching. An active stretch is one where you assume a position and then hold it there with no assistance other than using the strength of your agonist muscles (see section Cooperating Muscle Groups). For example, bringing your leg up high and then holding it there without anything (other than your leg muscles themselves) to keep the leg in that extended position. The tension of the agonists in an active stretch helps to relax the muscles being stretched (the antagonists) by reciprocal inhibition (see section Reciprocal Inhibition).

Active stretching increases active flexibility and strengthens the agonistic muscles. Active stretches are usually quite difficult to hold and maintain for more than 10 seconds and rarely need to be held any longer than 15 seconds.

Many of the movements (or stretches) found in various forms of yoga are active stretches.

Passive Stretching
Passive stretching is also referred to as relaxed stretching, and as static-passive stretching. A passive stretch is one where you assume a position and hold it with some other part of your body, or with the assistance of a partner or some other apparatus. For example, bringing your leg up high and then holding it there with your hand. The splits is an example of a passive stretch (in this case the floor is the "apparatus" that you use to maintain your extended position).

Slow, relaxed stretching is useful in relieving spasms in muscles that are healing after an injury. Obviously, you should check with your doctor first to see if it is okay to attempt to stretch the injured muscles (see section Pain and Discomfort).

Relaxed stretching is also very good for "cooling down" after a workout and helps reduce post-workout muscle fatigue, and soreness.

Static Stretching
Many people use the term "passive stretching" and "static stretching" interchangeably. However, there are a number of people who make a distinction between the two. According to M. Alter:

Static stretching involves holding a position. That is, you stretch to the farthest point and hold the stretch ...

Passive stretching is a technique in which you are relaxed and make no contribution to the range of motion. Instead, an external force is created by an outside agent, either manually or mechanically.

Notice that the definition of passive stretching given in the previous section encompasses both of the above definitions. Throughout this document, when the term static stretching or passive stretching is used, its intended meaning is the definition of passive stretching as described in the previous section. You should be aware of these alternative meanings, however, when looking at other references on stretching.

Isometric Stretching
Isometric stretching is a type of static stretching (meaning it does not use motion) which involves the resistance of muscle groups through isometric contractions (tensing) of the stretched muscles (see section Types of Muscle Contractions). The use of isometric stretching is one of the fastest ways to develop increased static-passive flexibility and is much more effective than either passive stretching or active stretching alone. Isometric stretches also help to develop strength in the "tensed" muscles (which helps to develop static-active flexibility), and seems to decrease the amount of pain usually associated with stretching.

Isometric stretching is not recommended for children and adolescents whose bones are still growing. These people are usually already flexible enough that the strong stretches produced by the isometric contraction have a much higher risk of damaging tendons and connective tissue.

PNF Stretching
PNF stretching is currently the fastest and most effective way known to increase static-passive flexibility. PNF is an acronym for proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation. It is not really a type of stretching but is a technique of combining passive stretching (see section Passive Stretching) and isometric stretching in order to achieve maximum static flexibility. Actually, the term PNF stretching is itself a misnomer. PNF was initially developed as a method of rehabilitating stroke victims. PNF refers to any of several post-isometric relaxation stretching techniques in which a muscle group is passively stretched, then contracts isometrically against resistance while in the stretched position, and then is passively stretched again through the resulting increased range of motion. PNF stretching usually employs the use of a partner to provide resistance against the isometric contraction and then later to passively take the joint through its increased range of motion. It may be performed, however, without a partner, although it is usually more effective with a partner's assistance.

elliotNess · 03-10-2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nips

Cheers, I'll look around for it.
How long would you suggest stretching for a day? Can you over do it? Can you get to a point where doing anymore for the day becomes redundant?

Twice a day after you are really warmed up. I have my serious students buy stretch machines. I prefer the cable model stretch machine.

cakegirl · 03-13-2007, 10:05 AM

mae geri to the head?!?! And you think you aren't flexible??? You must have elastic hamstrings!!!

As for mawashi, always make sure you're warm when you stretch (do some light stretching EVERY time you get out of the shower), and only do PNF stretches a max of 2x per week.

Nips · 03-16-2007, 07:43 AM

Thanks guys. I'm going to have a hunt around my library for Stretching Scientifically, and if that fails, nab it online. For now I'm doing alot of leg raises every day but I've only just picked up on something that I'm doing and has probably been making the process ALOT slower. When doing side leg raises, as the foot goes up I've been unconciously slightly pivoting on my grounded foot, so I've really been raising my leg halfway between directly back and directly to the side.

I'm experimenting around with static and passive versus dynamic. I'll let you know what personally worked for me when I've got my flexibility to where I'm happy with it (Not that I"ll stop stretching ^_^, you can always kick that little bit higher)

Troll Virus · 03-16-2007, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nips

Thanks guys. I'm going to have a hunt around my library for Stretching Scientifically, and if that fails, nab it online. For now I'm doing alot of leg raises every day but I've only just picked up on something that I'm doing and has probably been making the process ALOT slower. When doing side leg raises, as the foot goes up I've been unconciously slightly pivoting on my grounded foot, so I've really been raising my leg halfway between directly back and directly to the side.

I'm experimenting around with static and passive versus dynamic. I'll let you know what personally worked for me when I've got my flexibility to where I'm happy with it (Not that I"ll stop stretching ^_^, you can always kick that little bit higher)

Hey good luck with it.
You might find Kurz's video easier to follow than the book.
The book gets a bit beyond basic biology and can be hard to follow.

Try some PNF stretching though.
You don't need a partner though.
Find a slippy floor/table or a set of stairs even.
Stretch out till you feel a mild stretch, then contract/hold against it.
After say a count of 10, then relax, push it out some more, then repeat.
Don't over do it.
Less is more.

treelizard · 04-03-2007, 03:15 AM

You may want to pick up a copy of Magnificent Mobility... actually, the d-rom exercises in my opinion are more important than flexibility.

treelizard · 04-03-2007, 03:17 AM

Also the Performance Menu has two issues with articles on stretching and some good safe stretches in there.

03-09-2007, 09:42 PM	#1 (permalink)
Nips Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 103	Flexibility Hey, I've got a problem at the moment of being seriously limited by my flexibility in Kyokushin Karate. I can make a Mae Geri to the head of someone my own height, but start getting serious balance issues trying to lift a Mawashi Geri much higher than rib cage level just because it's such a stretch to get it up that high. I'm slowly improving my flexibility, but I was wondering if there's any stretching programs anyone could suggest to make my stretching more efficient. I'd prefer free information obviously ^_^ (Website with a stretching program etc), but if there's a book or DVD that comes highly recommended I'm still interested to hear about it. Thanks

03-09-2007, 10:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
GranFire Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South East Posts: 587	There is not fast way to improve flexibility. Consistent work is key! I know it sounds goofy, but Ballet has the best stretching exercises for the legs! There are numerous books out on stretching (and yoga...) you library probably has a sizable collection of those and DVDs in stock, all free! __________________ Banner by www.fiveancestors.com http://itatigerforum.proboards103.com/ It's not the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog

03-09-2007, 11:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
Hardball Premiere Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,308	Just bust there ribs with that roundhouse kick...........if you try for the head they will probably catch your kick and take you down with a vicious sweep thus bust the ribs since you are not naturally flexible. __________________ The Way of the Warrior is Practice. Daily practice, accumulate practice minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day. {Book of 5 Rings} Mike Brewers 2008 Sit up challenge 44,000/100,000 running balance.(Crunches) Kicks 6,300/100,000

03-13-2007, 10:05 AM	#9 (permalink)
cakegirl Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: under a pebble Posts: 836	mae geri to the head?!?! And you think you aren't flexible??? You must have elastic hamstrings!!! As for mawashi, always make sure you're warm when you stretch (do some light stretching EVERY time you get out of the shower), and only do PNF stretches a max of 2x per week. __________________

04-03-2007, 03:15 AM	#12 (permalink)
treelizard Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: the desert Posts: 3,403	You may want to pick up a copy of Magnificent Mobility... actually, the d-rom exercises in my opinion are more important than flexibility. __________________ http://www.dirttime.org http://morewomeninmma.blogspot.com

03-09-2007, 11:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
Nips Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 103	Cheers Granfire - and I genuinely believe you when it comes to ballet having brilliant leg stretching exercises. One of my mates is in my town's production of Cat's, before he started rehearsing, he was nearly as inflexible as me, now 4 months later, he can do the splits. And Hardball - yeah, I agree with you to a fair extent, but for kickboxing and Kyokushin styled competitions, if you have a poor head kick it's a big disadvantage. For mma - generally head kicks have become improbable, but fighters like Cro Cop have shown that a decent mawashi geri to the head is still a valuable tool to have in your arsenal if used in the right situation. For street, I'd avoid it just because "street" clothes can often restrict your legs, so even if you can make the height, your jeans can't. But just the same, it's good to have there just in case, just because if I happen to be wearing shorts and there's that perfect opening, a decent head kick will bring anyone down. So do you think yoga books would be the go? (I say yoga over ballet just because I doubt that I'll find a ballet book that deals solely with stretching... if I find one, I will check it out though ^_^) Are there any particular books you'd recommend?

03-09-2007, 11:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
elliotNess Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 140	Try the book dynamic stretching and kicking by Bill Superfoot Wallace.

03-10-2007, 07:45 PM	#6 (permalink)
Nips Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 103	Cheers, I'll look around for it. How long would you suggest stretching for a day? Can you over do it? Can you get to a point where doing anymore for the day becomes redundant?

03-16-2007, 07:43 AM	#10 (permalink)
Nips Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 103	Thanks guys. I'm going to have a hunt around my library for Stretching Scientifically, and if that fails, nab it online. For now I'm doing alot of leg raises every day but I've only just picked up on something that I'm doing and has probably been making the process ALOT slower. When doing side leg raises, as the foot goes up I've been unconciously slightly pivoting on my grounded foot, so I've really been raising my leg halfway between directly back and directly to the side. I'm experimenting around with static and passive versus dynamic. I'll let you know what personally worked for me when I've got my flexibility to where I'm happy with it (Not that I"ll stop stretching ^_^, you can always kick that little bit higher)

04-03-2007, 03:17 AM	#13 (permalink)
treelizard Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: the desert Posts: 3,403	Also the Performance Menu has two issues with articles on stretching and some good safe stretches in there. __________________ http://www.dirttime.org http://morewomeninmma.blogspot.com

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