Tom Yum

Aren't you supposed to wait until the 3rd date?

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Mr. Arieson

True, but I honestly hope I never get in that situtation anyway. Granted, it could happen at any time (road rage, etc) but usually I stay out of bad situtations.

Like this:

BAR BRAWL: Burkman vs. Phil Baroni

I read that, and was thinking: I would never hang out at Sutra in H.B.

Woud'nt happen. A scene like that holds no allure for someone my age anymore.

It got me thinking about my younger days. When I was in the military, I use to go off post with the guys to cowboy bars, Biker bars and strip clubs-but, I was always in a large group of guys that were pretty much on the same team. I witness lots of fights, and wisely chose to stay out of them. Usually, I was the voice of reason that was trying to talk my drunk buddies into leaving, before any real trouble started.

But, I can't even remember when I went to a club or bar last.

If I could roll back the clock (and if they had it back then) I would have loved to have started doing Muay Thai, BJJ and even western wrestling when I was younger. Back then, it was mostly two choices. Boxing at the YMCA or some sort of traditional martial arts like Kung-fu, Karate or Tae-Kwon Do (I did all three). I would have loved reality based arts like MT and BJJ if I had even known about them (pre internet days!).

Now I just feel I am two old, and can't risk an injury that will keep me out of work for weeks or months.

But, I see what you are saying Jubaji, and I agree.

Mr. Arieson

I just finished reading a book called "advanced Aikido" and found out some interesting things I did not know. In the advanced levels, Aikido starts to incorporate techniques similar to traditional Ju-Jitsu and Judo. There is a section on weapons that is very cool. The problem is that other martial arts focus on these advanced techniques from the get-go, which I guess means you learn actual self-defense techniques that work, very fast. In Aikido, it looks like you don't start even touching on grappling, choking techiques or judo type throws till much later-like after 5 years of the basics. But, I found kicking and leg defenses and even a section on how to deal with boxing jabs, hooks and uppercuts. It kind of blew my preconception that Aikido is nothing more then focusing on the hands and wrists. One of the most interesting points, which I already knew, is the heavy emphasis on circular movement, footwork, speed and distance. As I was reading, I found a lot of similarities to what is discussed about this aspect of fighting in a book by Bruce about Jeet-Kun-Do. I would be interested in what some of you JKD guys have to say on the subject.

Jiu-fu fighter

I have that book too,

and I am still reading it, lots of good info

And I never really knew that aikido is so spiritual almost a religion in its own right, at least the way Hirohei Ueshiba wanted it.
Its quite beautiful

Take your opponents negative energy, and use it to disable him, without creating any more negative energy of your own

lots to learn and appreciate,

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Mr. Arieson

Yeah, I seriously started getting that impression too, that it can be viewed as a religion. Elements of Omoto, Shinto and Zen.

Karate_is_cool

I've got tons of respect for any martial art. In my oppinion though, when it comes down to it, traditional martial arts are very inadequate for self defense. I realized this as soon as I started boxing/kickboxing. The fact is everything you know, before a fight, gets thrown out the window. Everything happens so fast that you have no time to think.

There is only one thing you can rely completely on in a fight and that's instinct. The only way to train instinct is to train as realistically as possible (sparring). The problem with traditional martial arts is that they don't practise realistic application. Now I do believe that some arts are just impossible to practise all out (like aikido), but the fact still remains that if someone isnt actually trying to hit you and beat you (as in win) you just aren't going to be able to practise realistically.

Things change when someone is trying to hurt you. If anyone has ever boxed before you'll know what I mean. Lets say that you've never boxed before and you start sparring. When half a dozen punches come at you within 3 seconds I guarantee you that you will close your eyes, and everyone knows that fighting blind is impossible. Chances are you'll start to panic and everything you throw will look like crap and be just as effective.

Just because you read in a book how to defend a jab (using aikido) does NOT mean you have a good chance of pulling it off even in a sparring session let alone a real fight. Even if you practised it a million times with a partner it isn't going to give you a decent chance in a real situation. Fighting is so ridiculously hard to get right even if you spar. The problem with partner to partner practise is you know what they're going to do to you before it happens.

If you were amazing at aikido and you knew how to defend from a right hook and you told me to throw one at you, you would probably do a great job defending it. But if we were fighting you would never have enough time to figure out what I was about to throw at you to defend effectively.

I hope I didn't offend any aikido practitioners out there. Aikido has a lot of valuable things you can learn like any other traditional art (karate, kung fu etc.), but in my humble oppinion when it comes to real self defense they come up short.

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Karate_is_cool

One more thing. Sparring in Karate and Taekwondo is not real sparring.

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jubaji

Then what is it?

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Karate_is_cool

play fighting

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jubaji

So, ALL karate and TKD sparring is "play fighting"?

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Karate_is_cool

First of all, they score points everytime you land a technique. They have to stop the fight everytime that happens. In a real fight no one stops until someone loses. I don't even know if I should even add anything else. That right there should be enough. I can't tell you how much a fighter sacrifices while training for a fight. All the blood and sweat they give to perfect their art (and win their fight).

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jubaji

Yes, yes, these are great secrets you are imparting...

Who are "they"? You used "they" three times there.

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Karate_is_cool

Does it matter who "they" are? You got my point regardless.

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jubaji

Nope. You have not made your point clear unless that point is that all Karate and TKD in the world is limited to point-sparring.

I think you are just trying to play the tough guy here, and I think you're doing a poor job of it.

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jubaji

No, I don't suppose you can.

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