Mike Brewer

That's the reason I drew a clear line between "practical" and "beneficial." Sword fighting is impractical. Look up the definition of "practical" and you'll see that's true. HOWEVER:

Beneficial is a different animal. Practicing sword arts can have a host of benefits, and that's for each individual to decide. I mean in the end, if the only thing a person wants to do is dress up in a hakama and wear a samurai sword around and they find true happiness in that - COOL! Happiness is a tangible, valuable benefit. More power to them. Where Bodhi and I agree completely and without exception is that it is dangerous to confuse "practical" with "beneficial." If you think that the practice of medieval swordsmanship, longsword and buckler, or samurai sword arts is going to have an immediate and direct practicality, you're functioning under dangerous assumptions.

I am not saying that practicality should be one's only consideration in choosing an art, mind you. I think personal fulfillment should outrank it by leagues. However, if you decide that practicality for modern combat IS your priority, then choosing a sword art to fulfill that need is a little, well, dumb.

RAB

I can agree with you.

Tant01

You forgot brick, 2X4, and scissors...

__________________
While the old form, jujutsu, was studied solely for fighting purposes, Kano's new system is found to promote the mental as well as the physical faculties.

T. Shidachi, 1892

RAB

Can a rock qualify as a brick?

Michael Wright

Before you start quoting facts about the law to people, which lets face it is a relatively important subject, it might be an idea to know what country we are talking about.

Ghost, (from the UK) was telling nathanrd (from the UK) - about UK law on knife crime. Several new bills have been passed, one of them increasing the jail sentence for possession of a knife to 5 years. They are also removing the paperwork associated with Stop and Search for offensive weapons, to make it easier for the Officers.

Tant01

Are you asking HIM to think before he spews his so called "facts"?

LMAO

__________________
While the old form, jujutsu, was studied solely for fighting purposes, Kano's new system is found to promote the mental as well as the physical faculties.

T. Shidachi, 1892

bodhisattva

Yeah, Tant, I find LOADS OF PEOPLE on web forums think real hard before they spew their opinions and views.

I mean, that's why we all log on, right? To create complex appendices and bibliography supporting our facts and opinions - that's what web forums are for..

But me, I'm the only one (yeah, right...) who just speaks freely. So, single me out. Good idea.

Tant, just because I think Kata and TMA are fraudulent practices for schools to sell as Martial Art Training doesn't mean you have to be a pissy-boy forever. Quit pouting, quit rolling your eyes like a child, and get over it.

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St. Louis MMA Training Club - MMA Boxing / Clinch / Submission Grappling / Wrestling Gym


Portland MMA Training Club: MMA Boxing / Brazilian Jiu Jitsu / Greco Roman Wrestling

bodhisattva

Yeah, that's a pretty good point. In fact, in this country (US) it's good to even know what state the person is from...

__________________

St. Louis MMA Training Club - MMA Boxing / Clinch / Submission Grappling / Wrestling Gym


Portland MMA Training Club: MMA Boxing / Brazilian Jiu Jitsu / Greco Roman Wrestling

bodhisattva

Yeah, I couldn't argue your point because of that fine line. "Benefits" and "practical for fight training" are very different.

Another place we agree completely is that if people ENJOY doing impractical martial art - then more power to them. I think people should do anything they enjoy - the world can be tough and if someone can find some pleasure or happiness doing something that doesn't hurt or infringe on the will of another - right on!

The place we disagree (I think) is I tend to hold it against instructors who teach some of those things as "martial art." I consider it a dangerous type of fraud. There is no telling what kind of dangerous situations some of those guys get themselves into..

__________________

St. Louis MMA Training Club - MMA Boxing / Clinch / Submission Grappling / Wrestling Gym


Portland MMA Training Club: MMA Boxing / Brazilian Jiu Jitsu / Greco Roman Wrestling

bodhisattva

Rocks make awesome weapons as they are often even harder than bricks.. But you had better be in a life-or-death situation before you smack someone in the skull with a rock - as you're likely to crack that egg.

__________________

St. Louis MMA Training Club - MMA Boxing / Clinch / Submission Grappling / Wrestling Gym


Portland MMA Training Club: MMA Boxing / Brazilian Jiu Jitsu / Greco Roman Wrestling

Tant01

Pouting? LMAO...

MW had a valid point. It does little for your POV (point of view) to dispense meaningless advise... It does even less if your advise or opinion is misleading... When your "facts" are not factual...

Recent events in UK are creating outcry for yet MORE weapon laws and tighter control of knives in general.

In some cities there is a virtual ZERO tolerance policy regardless of the intent or letter of law. You WILL get jail time if you get caught with ANY sort of knife...

But don't take MY word for anything.

__________________
While the old form, jujutsu, was studied solely for fighting purposes, Kano's new system is found to promote the mental as well as the physical faculties.

T. Shidachi, 1892

Blue Wave Gym

When you first posted you comments. I agree that studying a stick or blade art would be more effective than weilding a stick like a sword for the reasons you stated and most things you'd find would be more liek a stick in length. However do you think a skilled kendo exponent or other sword art person couldn't defend themselves with an overhead strike from a broom length why should they change their range or grip to one of a stick. At home I train with bastons, knives and a boken as well as a shortend broom that is between a sword and baston in length and I feel as comfortable with it, the baston or boken. Your comments really mad me think that's why I didn't post before how is the follow up with a baston different thna with a stick that is sword lenght also what about the machette used in battlfield combat the are militaries who tain in the use of the machette (not bolo or kukuri) so it is a short sword what do you think.

__________________
Tiens, voila du boudin,
voila du boudin,
voila du boudin
Pour les Alsaciens, les Suisses, et les Lorrains
Pour les Belges, il n'y en a plus,
pour les Belges, il n'y en a plus
Ce sont des tireurs au cul. Tireurs au cul

Mike Brewer

Well, if I'm reading your question right, you've asked me:

A.) What I think of the value of militaries training against and with sword-type weapons, and

B.) Whether or not I think training in a sword art would equip a person to defend against strikes with sticks.

To the first part, I think the value for militaries is distinctly different than the value for civilians. Militaries carry that kind of gear as a part of their regularly issued kit, so it makes perfect sense to train with it nad be capable with it. That benefit and practicality ends abruptly when you enter the civilian world where carrying a bolo around all day might be inappropriate or unfeasible.

As to the second, yes, I think a kendo person would do pretty well against an overhead strike with a broomstick, etc. The real question is, when would he really have to? Are muggings being propegated these days by broom wielding assailants who strike overhead? From the crime stats, it's more likely that an average attacker will use tools like sucker punches, knives, or guns (or groups) in their attacks. The reason for that is very much the same as the reason why training the sword is impractical in itself: It's not easy to carry or conceal a long stick or blade. Criminals would get farther with a knife or gun, because it's easy to conceal, and that will get them a lot farther than a stick or sword anyway. So the ability of a Kendo person to deal with strikes like the ones you mentioned has very little bearing, since those are not generally the kinds of attacks they're likely to face.

Hope that answers the question...

Tant01

Not to argue the point (if it's still there) but to offer my perspective...

There ain't much use for a katana, that's for sure. What's interesting to me about "sword arts" is the versatility of the weapon. There is no need these days to sever arms or heads but the sword makes a fine stick. Some specialized skills with it include but are not limited to using it while still in it's sheath as an impact weapon. Also disarming the weapon with haste and skill. Grappling with the weapon or reaping the legs without intent to sever. Choking, locking, and surgical cutting to incapacitate as opposed to outright slaughter.

There is often a pommel to counter balance a blade... Makes a damn fine "stick"... Golf club, bat, shotgun, broomstick, antenna or a chair... Fencing principles, shielding and footwork are invaluable...

Just my humble opinion... Nothing like learning proper distance and timing...

__________________
While the old form, jujutsu, was studied solely for fighting purposes, Kano's new system is found to promote the mental as well as the physical faculties.

T. Shidachi, 1892

Blue Wave Gym

Mike I was asking if a person trained in a sword art woud be able to defend themselves with a sword length sitck against the types of attacks you mentioned, not defend themselves against attacks with a sword length stick. I assumed that the attacker would use a typical weapon.

__________________
Tiens, voila du boudin,
voila du boudin,
voila du boudin
Pour les Alsaciens, les Suisses, et les Lorrains
Pour les Belges, il n'y en a plus,
pour les Belges, il n'y en a plus
Ce sont des tireurs au cul. Tireurs au cul