R.a.t

[Void]

How many of you use this tactic and do you honestly find it as effective as it is made out to be?

Be well.

[bvermillion]

never recall hearing of it

[Void]

You've never heard of the rapid assault tactic?

[Thai Bri]

Void - its a fair question.

I was researching Vunak, but he is fast losing credibility for me. I cannot claim to have used this tactic, but do have some comments based on my 20 odd years of experience.

Here are the good points:-

He has simplified the application of JKD. JKD is a biiiiiiig monster getting out of hand. I used to train with one of the few British JKD instructors, and all the millions of drills, energy drills, weapons and combinations etc. are just mind boggling. So much so it turns poeple into over-filled machines that will probably freeze if a real street fighter jumped out in front of them.

He has kept things down to the basics. He has reduced the emphasis on trapping (which has always been a waste of time in my book) and increased emphasis on things like Heads, Knees and Elbows - proven techniques that hurt anyone and everyone.

In short he has produced a strategy and a package that seems easy to learn.

Here are the bad points:-

I have a hard time believeing in limb destructions. Attacking an incoming blow is too much of a tall order. OK, if some guy is holding a weapon, and you hit his hand with a weapon of your own, I can see that. But striking a hand as it is coming towards your head at 60 miles per hour? Nah. Too hard. I don't even think you'll find it easy to block it, let alone strike it.

Secondly the Straight Blast. I have done Wing Chun, and initially thought it to be a good technique. But the Wing Chun version is like a barrage of weak punches that a tough guy could fight through. He seems to use a barrage of punches a little more akin to boxing, running in towards the attacker simulataneously. I do think that this CAN be a good tactic if the time is right, i.e. if he is already rocked by a blow. But he seems to sell it as an all singing all dancing principle.

He also pays no attention to pre confrontation rituals. Real fights do not start out with two people bowing and/or touching gloves at the sound of a bell. Study Geoff Thompson. His strategy would take a JKD/R.A.T. guy out of the fight before he even knew he was in it.

Just my two cents. Welcome to the forum.

[sercuerdas]

void, my two cents.


i agree about jkd getting out of hand. i think rat is a good idea, but the skills he tries to pass off as easy to learn require years of sensitivity drills to pull off. the straight blast is great against an untrained oppoenet , but if fighting someone who can counter it you need the sensitivity to to recenter. the limb destructions will work, but they are developed by working with the faster moving sticks. to just try to learn destruction h2h will be hard. that said i think vunaks money making programs represent little of his actual skill. he has done all the attribrute train so he can pull off things others can not.

thai bri,

i think the problem with trapping in jkd is you will only use it if someone occupies centerline. i find the way the filipinos trap to work very well, and be much more varsitle.

[roz]

in totality and simplicity i agree. you must be cordinated and agilitized to employ Vunaks work. it is not for everyone, but do not give up johnny, just try a little harder

[brokenelbow]

I really hate agreeing with Thai Bri!

Vunak has some great skills that show years of work. RAT is a nice idea that's just somehow lacking.

[Thai Bri]

Real learning is always a tough process. But keep with me, broken elbow. You're due a Yellow Belt in Thai Bri Do soon, and I won't even charge you for it.

[NHBMARK1]

I have a hard time believeing in limb destructions. Attacking an incoming blow is too much of a tall order. OK, if some guy is holding a weapon, and you hit his hand with a weapon of your own, I can see that. But striking a hand as it is coming towards your head at 60 miles per hour? Nah. Too hard. I don't even think you'll find it easy to block it, let alone strike it. "

I couldn't agree more.
What if you're fighting a guy with hands like Vitor Belfort?
Forget about blocking & destroying, you need to shoot in & take his ass to the ground.
Watch how many time Randy Couture blocks or destroys Vitors fist
in January.

By the way UFC tonight, enjoy gang!

[shadowkiller]

Vitor is a very dangerous man. I loved the fight between him and wanderlei. Was such a sweet combination, all the way across the ring. I bet silva wasnt expecting that.

[one sword]

Did I miss the second round of pride? R.A.T.s!! hahahaha....no seriously. I don't believe that anyone can be given fighting spirit, sensitivity, speed, or economic power in two days of training. What I do believe R.A.T. to be good for is just what it claims. A condensed curriculum of valid techniques. If you teach this to a Navy SEAL then he is going to be able to do more with it than some silicon valley executive. DUUUH!! This curriculum is for people who don't have time to seek out a valuable instructor. They pay money for Vunak's credibility. If they are not in shape, and if they don't continue to train, then they probably have about as much chance of winning a streetfight as my baby brother.

Limb detructions work, but they don't end a fight, they are just a tool like your jab. The most usable one is definitely the elbow spike. It will destroy someone's fingers while they punch. Leg distructions seriously hamper an opponent. Did any of you see the preliminary of the pride tournament? I forgot their names, so please excuse the descriptions. One is a 6' black man from Memphis(GO TENNESSEE) and the other was a stand in from Brazille. Well the Brazillian would have probably won it with a guillotine if he hadn't taken seven or eight hook kicks to the thigh. Limb destruction in action. It didn't end the fight, but it won it.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

I've sparred the RAT tactics for years under full contact scenarios.
I've gotten pretty decent with it, but the problem I find is that when you are clinched on someone's neck delivering headbutts, knees, and elbows, your opponent still has time to defend and fire back shots, stiff arm, try to shoot in on your, etc.
To prevent this you should be yanking and jerking his head in all directions, constantly trying to break his balance. But this is easier said than done against someone who is skilled.
(find a good boxer/grappler and try to RAT him... )

I've mixed a lot of Richard Dimitri's "shredder" aspects into the RAT program and have found that it compliments it extremely well.

Ryu

[Thai Bri]

Ryu - do you have the Shredder package, or have you been shown it? Just wondering.

[Cain]

why do people confuse defence tactics for the street with ufc again? YOU DO NOT WANT TO TAKE SOMEONE DOWN OUT IN THE REAL WORLD.. ffs.. the asfalt is hard.. not soft and forgiving as the mat.. the guy is infact allowed and encouraged to strike your small stupid balls (and it would be a good evolutionary thing to do I might add..).. so stop this "hey, what if i met vitor belfort and blablabla, i would take him down"..

try standing with 3-4 druggies around you.. needles, a screwdriver, a broken bottle... you are on the granite stairs.. do you _really_ want to take one down and get a screwdriver in the kidneys and an aids-infected needle in the neck?

nopes..

[cboog]

Originally posted by Cain
why do people confuse defence tactics for the street with ufc again? YOU DO NOT WANT TO TAKE SOMEONE DOWN OUT IN THE REAL WORLD.. ffs.. the asfalt is hard.. not soft and forgiving as the mat.. the guy is infact allowed and encouraged to strike your small stupid balls (and it would be a good evolutionary thing to do I might add..).. so stop this "hey, what if i met vitor belfort and blablabla, i would take him down"..

try standing with 3-4 druggies around you.. needles, a screwdriver, a broken bottle... you are on the granite stairs.. do you _really_ want to take one down and get a screwdriver in the kidneys and an aids-infected needle in the neck?

nopes..

Exactlly around where I grew up at, a one on one fight is like striking gold, you go to the ground here and put someone in a submission, I garuantee you are getting a Timberland boot to the head and body.