Certified JKD Instructors - How long?

[El Mastero]

This question is directed at anyone who is currently studying or teaching JKD. How long does it take under your instructor or for your students to attain an instructors certificate in JKD?

The reason I ask is because in most traditional arts it can take anywhere between 2 to 5 years to be a black belt and a bit longer to attain an instructors certificate.

I find it extremely odd that some people have been given instructor certification in JKD by attending seminars or a one on one 10 to 20 hr course. There are even some instructors who allow certification via video tapes. Buy a bunch of their tapes, study them and then send them your tape mimicking what they've done, along with a sizable check or money order, and you'll recieve a JKD certificate in the mail. I don't know about you but this sounds very unreputable.

Anyway, I'm just curious to know how long it took any of you instructors to get certified. Did you go to a seminar, train at home or did you attend a reputable school for a few years until the instructor saw that not only were you knowledgable on all aspects of the curriculum and had the ability to teach the art in full. And for you students, how long does your instructor feel is a good amount of time learning JKD before you are ready to carry on the JKD torch. Just curious. Thanks.

[roz]

excellent
training in martial arts is an ongoing process, learning new tweeks on a daily basis. thru mind, body, and soul. certification to me is a show of dedication, the ability to overcome and adapt. if someone achieves a certification with out rightfully earning it, than that is his perrogative. would you not say? sometimes things have to be given for encouragement, or to show appreciation due to hard work. i do understand thou, due to training with people that had abilities less than i, and certifications larger than mine, but maybe he was better at something that i was not. for instance bjj, to achieve a bb one must attend countless hours per week for 5 years straight. or steady for 10 years, or you can throw some pretty dinero someones way in not only jkd, but also every art. Same goes to education,etc... i personally have devoured ma twenty some odd years past, and the essence of jkd 14 yrs. past, and i can only say i know a 3 from 1-10 scale. so just think of this way- if can do it so can i-.

[IPON]

Originally Posted by roz

if someone achieves a certification with out rightfully earning it, than that is his perrogative. would you not say?

I don't think the answer is that easy, I would say yes and no. If someone wants a 2 month BB fine, for their personal use and bragging rights. They would be embarrassed around any legitimate stylist, but I would agree that is their prerogative.

However, there are issues of honor and ethics. It is not ethical to teach (even if free) and take money based on this BB. Also, there is a syndrome of truly unqualified instructors that are certifying more unqualified instructors. It can take and average of 6moths to a year to become and instructor and the majority of these are done at seminars and video tape. The point El Mastero raises is one of the two main problems with JKD: 1. Was it meant to be a MA or just a philosophy (I really don't want to debate this point) and 2. the quality of training. There are schools that teach "JKD" that have almost nothing even remotely close to what Lee taught, that are combining multiple arts and call it JKD for marketing. Again, nothing wrong with the combo, but don't call it JKD, if you feel you are progressive then it a philosophy you are teaching not the style.

The training as El Mastero states is a problem. Most MA styles have minimums for advancements, JKD none, I can start a school in 6months after having no prior training or experience. Then I can tell people I am a Master and why styles like TKD pale in comparison, which is garbage. The problem is people don't know the politics and garbage behind the sconces with a lot of MAs to ask questions. They see a movie or watch the UFC /PRIDE/ K1 etc and want to learn a style.

We constantly criticize TKD as a McDojo, but at least these students learn techniques and train hard. I think in any TKD school, you will walk out minimally in shape. JKD is the biggest mail-order school, and you don't even get these health benefits so you have to ask yourself which is the true McDojo.

Now, not all JKD instructors are bad, but it is definitely the minority that is good. and again, their personal expression of JKD is usually far removed from the original teachings as it should be, but then it should not be called JKD.

No flame just adding my 2 cents

[Ryu (JKD?)]

I think it's important for JKD people who have been certified to deal with this question instead of dodge it.

I, for example, got my Full Instructorship from Paul Vunak, and have trained with him on various occasions, as well as being trained by some of his other instructors. However, even he has been pointed at as someone who is starting to "give" them out too much.
And to be perfectly honest (and this might be more than another instructor might say) I HOPE Paul's faith in me and my abilities was very true.

For the record, Paul is not (in my opinion) solely out for money. I've seen him let a newcomer come down for free who had lost out on his ability to pay due to external circumstances.

My personal background in JKD started formally around 1993, and I was able to travel a bit to get private lessons from Thom Cruse. I trained continuously in JKD, and joined other MA schools to enhance my grappling background, boxing background, etc. I traveled to LA to train with Paul in 1998, and spent a couple days with him so he could hone my skills and at that time recieved a phase 1 instructorship after about 5 years or so of training. Paul did not have a "school" any longer at that point, and so I absolutely was not an everday "student" of Paul's. My training came from my private lessons and continuous work with other MArtists, and an "everday" student at BJJ and judo gyms, etc.
Again, I continued to train with reputable people, but was not a part of a JKD school. I gained my skills in my ranges by being a student of different schools for a number of years whether they be BJJ, judo, working with "original" JKD people, etc.
In 2003 I again went to train with Paul (after keeping in touch with him) and this time after being able to fight well in all those ranges and beat other people, as well as being able to teach it with good accuracy, details, humor, etc. He gave me my full instructorship.
I had about 10 years of "JKD" study in me, but that study didn't come from 10 years of being in a JKD school. It came from 10 years of constantly training, fighting, being a part of other MA schools, etc. I guess a real "concepts" approach in a way...

At this point in my life, I am (as I've always been) into MA for the self-defense aspects of it rather than for money. I don't create programs, and I don't actually certify anyone at this point. The students I have at the moment are into it for the same reasons I am and don't really care about being "instructors".
As of now I'm still incoroprating new ideas and trying to figure out what I can do better in the fight game.
I may not be the best instructor out there......but one thing I'll never do is lie to people about who I really am or what my background is.

I'm always honest, even if it doesn't make me look that great. But most tend to respect me for it.

I think "JKD" should be about honesty first and foremost. That's probably the biggest part of the philosophy people glance over....


Ryu

[roz]

ryu who is dodging the question?
as for the question on how long it takes to become certified in jkd, that is all up to you as the student, or the instructor. i am fortunate to know my instructor, whom fits into the humble-down to earth-family, type of person. instructors and people of this nature that help you develop your character are worth more than you could ever pay. if you know a person of this statue, you are lucky, cause they are one of kind -RARE-

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Roz,
That wasn't directed at anyone. Especially not you, dude.

I was just saying that it would be nice if lots of JKD instructors did post about it here.

Ryu

[IPON]

Originally Posted by Ryu (JKD?)

Roz,
That wasn't directed at anyone. Especially not you, dude.

I was just saying that it would be nice if lots of JKD instructors did post about it here.

Ryu

Ryu, just so you know I am certified as an instructor but I will not teach. I don't really want to get into the deatils and which Org I have certification. My opinions are not definative of course but they do come from experience and oberservation.

[roz]

sorry bro, did not mean to sound so mean
thanks for the reply
on a second note what happened to roy harris? is he still apart of pfs?

[brokenelbow]

"I, for example, got my Full Instructorship from Paul Vunak,"

Ryu, what does a Full Instructorship mean? Who gave Vunak authority to hand out instructorships? I'm not going after you or Vu but just wondering who also recognizes the certificate. Could you run a class at Inosantos, Cuccis or Cruzs schools? I've run across certification issues in other styles and just wondering what a cert. means for you.

[Drew Howe]

Originally Posted by brokenelbow

"I, for example, got my Full Instructorship from Paul Vunak,"

Ryu, what does a Full Instructorship mean? Who gave Vunak authority to hand out instructorships? I'm not going after you or Vu but just wondering who also recognizes the certificate. Could you run a class at Inosantos, Cuccis or Cruzs schools? I've run across certification issues in other styles and just wondering what a cert. means for you.

JKD would die out at some point if someone certified to teach it wasn't around to pass it down. That is unless of course you believe JKD is something anyone can learn by reading a book. In which case JKD will always be available to learn regardless of whether or not there are any instructors to teach it.

I believe that traceable lineage to Bruce Lee is more important than some certification. Anyone can type up a piece of paper. However, it doesn't mean much unless that person can trace their lineage (beyond a few seminars and having read the Tao) to Bruce Lee. I guess that is obvious..but maybe to newbies it isn't real clear.

It's good that Vu and others are finding qualified instructors to certify. It will insure that JKD will be pass down to other people when the eventual day comes that no more 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generation student/instructors are around anymore.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Originally Posted by brokenelbow

"I, for example, got my Full Instructorship from Paul Vunak,"

Ryu, what does a Full Instructorship mean? Who gave Vunak authority to hand out instructorships? I'm not going after you or Vu but just wondering who also recognizes the certificate. Could you run a class at Inosantos, Cuccis or Cruzs schools? I've run across certification issues in other styles and just wondering what a cert. means for you.

Honestly, not all that much. A certifcation to me means you've logged in the years and training and maturity to start passing on the material yourself. Dan Inosanto obviously granted Paul the right to give out certifications since Paul was one of his top students.

But a full certification in PFS means you can teach PFS material, and are honored by those at PFS. You can obviously add or subtract anything you feel will help you, but I don't think you can deny your roots so to speak or somehow deny PFS as the JKD group you belong to.

It's an honest question, and I don't have all the answers to it. The JKD political world is incredibly tiring, and sometimes it confuses and frustrates me just as much as it does you.

Hope that helps somewhat.

Ryu

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Drew, that was a good post. I agree with that.


Ryu

[El Mastero]

Thank you all for your responses. I would just like to comment or question the following quote.

"A certifcation to me means you've logged in the years and training and maturity to start passing on the material yourself. Dan Inosanto obviously granted Paul the right to give out certifications since Paul was one of his top students."

That's what I thought. Years of training in the system. Being 100% qualified to pass on the system to your students the way it was taught to you or the way let's say Dan taught it.

"But a full certification in PFS means you can teach PFS material, and are honored by those at PFS. You can obviously add or subtract anything you feel will help you, but I don't think you can deny your roots so to speak or somehow deny PFS as the JKD group you belong to."

Well if you're certifed in PFS (Progressive Fighting Systems?) then you are not certified in JKD. That is my understanding unless you go on the whole political OJKD vs JKDC, where JKD is just a concept not a full art. AKA Bruce stressed finding your own way as way and as long as you do it's JKD. Is that the case?

"It's an honest question, and I don't have all the answers to it. The JKD political world is incredibly tiring, and sometimes it confuses and frustrates me just as much as it does you."

It frustrates me as well. If one is a very good martial artists and can teach a system of self defense that will benefit one's students then I would love to train with them. Whether it's JKD or not is all in the political realm but doesn't make one a less skilled instuctor.

"Hope that helps somewhat.

Ryu"

It was a nice addition to this topic thanks.

[brokenelbow]

It's an honest question, and I don't have all the answers to it. The JKD political world is incredibly tiring, and sometimes it confuses and frustrates me just as much as it does you.

If only politics were the sole property of the JKD world.

[doubleouch]

I think the term JKD should have died with Bruce. It has caused so much hatred and political backbiting. To concentrate on who your instructor got his certificate from is bad JKD in itself. If someone can teach you stuff that works then who should argue with that? If your students are far more skillful and effective than mine then what good does my certification do? Besides being a marketing tool the name has not much use anymore.