Lack Of Understanding

[Demi Barbito]

...on my part. I don't understand how some in the "self defense" or "martial arts" world are still stuck in a niche when it comes to stopping the bad guy.

It's like everyone has their own recepie for self defense and they are sure thiers will work. Some think it's JKD. Some think it's a mix of grappling, clinch and boxing. Some think it's firearms. Some think it's what Bruce Lee was doing in 1973. Some think it's karate. Some think it's wrestling.

The problem with this thinking is that the key to self defense is none of the above.

If you have a "way" the bad guys may find a "way around it". This is not definitive but...

Multiple opponents counter grappling.

Knife counters gun at close range.

Grappling counters karate.

Gun counters multiple opponents.

MMA counters grappling.

Dark parking lot counters your ability to see. (White light is the lastest area identified as a missing element in self preservation)

I could go on but I get it it. The people I work with get it. Others get it. I see that many still don't though.

Proximity negates skill. I've been screaming this into people ears for years. If you have no way of operating from a distance you have limited your response options.

If you were 15 feet away from your friend and someone approached your friend with a knife... by the time you ran up to help... But if you were to draw a firearm you could operate from where you are or as you moved.

Likewise "threat recognition" should keep threats at a distance. If someone who means to do you harm gets to close because you were lulled by thier "hey bro what time is it", you may never recover. If they "act" and you "react" they have the advantage. Not only that, they had a plan and were prepared.

People ask me do you really "do" this. It's real simple. As long as you make the descisions in advance. I was recently in ventura and we had to stop at a convenience store. There was a bar next to it that shared the same parking lot. I was 10:30 at night. When I was coming out of the store a man and woman cam out of the bar and started running at me yelling "Hey, Hey". I looked over my shoulder and then put on hand on my gun and put the other one up at the two running at me and YELLED "stay back, stay back". They froze about 20 feet in front of me. I looked over my shoulder again and got into the car with my family and drove off. My wife and kids understood what had happened and my daughter asked "What did they want". I told her "I didn't know and didn't care".

No one is allowed to run up on me and my family in a dark parking lot at night without a response from me.

Threat recognition and the ability to operate from a distance helped in that situation.

I see Self Preservation the way it really is. The ability to preserve the self and those with the self. Maybe for some who don't get it youth is the problem. Maybe having children changes your perspective. I don't know.

The moral of the story is:

No matter how good your boxing is, it's potentially useless if you opponent brought a knife.

Threat Recognition

Movement

Firearms

OC Spray

White Light

Improvised Projectiles

Impact Weapons

Bladed Weapons

Counter Knife

Empty Hand Counter Assault Tactics

Grappling

I've seen many different approaches. I've been paid by the US government to train law enforcement over the past few years and I've seen "some" failures even there in the lack of comprehensive training. Not only in the "how" (spelled realistic) but in the what (spelled no counter knife, no CQB, weak firearms handling and more).

cont

Have you not seen how the terrorist enemies of the US are training. Even though they are rag tag etc. they are effective. So when someone says you have to train for "years and years in any one thing to be great" just focus on being effective. That does mean you have to apply yourself and spend some time on each element. Or you could just be a great striker. And maybe you can even beat up a lot of people. But I see beyond that.

1. "Love you neighbor as you love yourself."

2. Avoid/respond to threats/violence as needed.

3. Repeat.

Demi

www.DemiBarbito.com

[m.artist]

wow i would really like to meet you. are you coming to texas anytime soon? like to wichita falls texas? that would be cool. you sound ( and obviously are) really experianced. your the type of man i would really want to train with

[kengar]

Demi
You speak of wise words and sound concepts. You make valid points in your post and definitely give something to think about keeping a potential threat at a distance. The only issues agianst those principles would be that some people live in countries that do not permit carring weapons of any kind. Now, that is where improvised weapons come into play, though it still has to be justified in carring it. Flashlights, as you brought up, would probably be the best choice and easiest to justify.

I don't believe your stating "don't train H2H", though I do want to stress that even when carring a firearm or other weapon that there may come a time when you don't recognize your threat until it's in your face. In such a case acting in a combative manner may be the best solution and give an opening to draw your weapon.

Threat Recognition, your own training proved true and valuable. Now, it would be pretty damn funny if these people had seen some of your training and wanted to come over to meet you. I guess that would be their first hands-on training with you.

Good post.



Ken

[Demi Barbito]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

"""Now, it would be pretty damn funny if these people had seen some of your training and wanted to come over to meet you. I guess that would be their first hands-on training with you."""

That's funny.

Demi

[brokenelbow]

Knife counters gun at close range.
Gun counters multiple opponents.

Huh?

[cboog]

common sense counters everything

[bvermillion]

I would prefer gun at any range.

[faulknermano]

Originally Posted by brokenelbow

Huh?

a gun is a handheld device that can send a nice metal slug a thousand or so meters a second with a simple finger pull.

you know, even if the gun doesnt hit anything it would sure make alot of your attackers run for cover. of course, that's not the most ideal way.

yes, i would prefer a gun at any range... although proper handling of a gun in close range is vital due to the possiblity of being disarmed and the gun used against you.

[kengar]

I may not have given the idea so let me add to my previous post. I do believe law-abiding citizens should be allowed to carry concealed weapons in ALL states and each individual should train in firearms whether or not they want to carry.

Improvised weapons: I bet I know a few people who had people following them when the power went out in New York, because they had their Mag Light clipped to their belt.

And my post was in no way an arguement with Demi Barbito. I think its great when people such as himself, Rich Dimitri and others alike that are more known in the training field drop by other forums to chat with people who possibly bye their products and are more than willing to share and exchange ideas. And without the ego.

[eXcessiveForce]

I believe Demi has much more experience than you could possibly imagine when it comes to handguns. I think if you listen to him you might learn something.

[eXcessiveForce]

The point is that when I am within range with a knife I can take the arm in a matter of a second so even if you managed to draw the gun and get a shot off you would only get one. Once the tendons are cut in your arm and hand and I have stabbed you in the neck or the kidney or into the solar plexus it's over for you.

A common cut is to go over the top of the elbow twice. Making the arm useless. The next thing is to go to a lethal target.

Also a cut to the wrist will make it tough to hold a gun because you lose all grip strength.

although a gun can be used at close range it is more prone to being taken away inside of 22 feet.

In a study of police officers many were not even able to draw their weapon and get a shot off when an attacker rushed them from 22 feet.

22 feet is a long way. I believe only 2 actually got a shot off and that was through the hoilster while laying on their backs. None of them actually drew the gun.

So within six feet a knife is a huge problem for a gun wielding person. At 70 feet it's not a big deal.

[Demi Barbito]

eXcessiveForce is right.

Point being... If you have a gun and I have a knife and you're close to me I will get the knife into your throat or solar plexus "even if you shoot me multiple times". this means the gun was not the appropriate answer to the problem based on distance. I would have been an empty hand problem (counter knife) before it was a gun problem.

Now there are certain tactics for CQC handgun that can help tremendously but they come into play if you have already drawn your weapon. If you have not drawn your weapon and the bad guy is too close you'll need to go hands on if he rushes you. If he's standing there like a dummy then of course, draw, shoot and move!

Demi

[eXcessiveForce]

h2h you misunderstand. The police officers were standing. They had to drop backwards onto their backs and fire through the holster. They did not have time to draw the weapon so they simply fired it.


And there are many times when people have been shot multiple times and still carried out tasks.

Hell one lady was shot in the head 14 times and lived The first shot was point blank. She was on a plane that was hijacked. They put a 44 to her head and shot her and dumped her out of the plane onto the runway. She kept getting up and trying to run and they kept shooter her in the head. Finally she played dead and they closed the door to the plane and she got up and ran away. She lived with very little medical problems.

Don't believe getting shot kills you instantly. It can but not always. And someone pumped up or high may shrug off a shot from many types of pistols.

realize most police officers that are shot and killed are done so with their own guns. Its because people can close distance very quickly when they decide that is what they are going to do.

Also they have no reaction time because they initiated the action. Where as the defender now has to precieve and process the information before they act. That is what allows the defender to close the difference.

[eXcessiveForce]

It's not crap it was big news. I have seen interviews with the woman. It is well documented. She does studder a bit now as it probably did some brain damage. But you cannot tell that she was ever shot in the head from looking at her.

I'd have to get out my manual to see. I know it was with a rushing person. I do not know the exact method of simulation. The dropped to their backs to gain more distance from the rushing person and get a few more seconds. They did just fall backwards as I understand it but launched backwards.

Demi might know more about that study.