an observation

[kiddbjj]

isn't it funny that nowdays everyone is talking about mixing stand up, ground and some kind of basic weapons training (stick/knife) when this is basically what the JKD people have been on about all along.
it just comes down to what you call it - being well rounded, or reality based or whatever.
it is basically the mind set that Bruce espoused when he conceptualised JKD. funny

[Thai Bri]

Except people are doing it in efective ways now, unblike mainstream JKD.

Funny.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

was just about to say that. strange how for people who actually do JKD, they dont want to call it that because of the stigma. whereas those who just try and copy bruce lee seem to revel in it.

[gungfuhero]

Just mixing together different martial arts doesn't make JKD. There is nothing adaptable about making a new composite system because it would be that, a system with codified ways of doing things. Call systems are eclectic at some level, and being new does not make it better be necessity. This is the heart of the JKD argument where one side thinks that anything they do is JKD and other are obsessed with the creator.

I don't know which "main stream" you are talking about, but real JKD can be quite effective.

[Thai Bri]

Real JKD my arse.

How can it be possible to have a "JKD club" where you all practice the ame moves, and theres even a grading syllabus?

JKD is about a person ansorbing what is useful etc etc. It is different for everyone.

But what happens now is that they all do dead sticky flicky drills and hubud. Its cack.

Yes, there are people in the JKD world who can fight. They are in the minority, and usually have great skils from arts they studied prior to JKD.

[gungfuhero]

Bruce Lee, who created JKD, taught a body of techniques and a method of training which, while not being totality, best exemplified his principles of JKD. Therefore, I think that JKD is not ONLY simply taking what works for you. What "works" for you may be really inefficient and could work for you much better with the infusion of JKD technology. I don't know what you mean by "sticky flicky drills" but I can tell you that where I train JKD, we train very similarly to a boxing gym. Also, hubad is not even a JKD drill. It comes from Kali which is sometimes an adjunct art to JKD, but is NOT JKD. And while I think that hubad has its own merits, nobody worth his salt thinks that hubad is fighting or a substitute for fighting. To those who understand Kali tactics, hubad is a method of conveying cerain principles and strategies as well as a fairly sterile environment to accomodate your self with knew moves before testing them in sparring (isolation and free).

[atlas1212]

"dead drills". That's so Matt Thornton. There are "dead drills" that work. I've done TONS of them in BJJ and they work. I've done tons of energy drills and guess what? THEY DO improve your sensitivity. You can't do them EXCLUSIVELY but they do work. There are good guys in JKD. Any school that teaches you how to punch with a correct fist, kick someone in the nuts and shows concepts of awareness has improved your ability to survive an attack significantly.

[Thai Bri]

I know there are good guys in JKD. There are good guys in Karae and Kung Fu.

But they're getting outnumbered rapido.

As for certain movements coming from other arts...... just about ALL JKD comes from other arts.

[gungfuhero]

JKD was the brain child of Bruce Lee. The majority of it is influenced by Boxing, Fencing and Wing Chun. There are also elements of savate, thai boxing, judo, wrestling, mantis fist, choy lay fut, Nihon jiu jitsu and a couple of others; however, it is the way in which these elements were put together and modified that make the art what it is. What holds JKD back is not the technology, but the greed, ignorance and arrogance of some of those who espouse the name. Some people think that JKD is ONLY what Bruce Lee did, others think it is anything that they do. I personally think they are both wrong. JKD has a definite starting point, core, structure or whatever you want to call it, but personal evolution is also intrinsically part of Jeet Kune Do.

[Thai Bri]

Hardly the formless form then......

What a load of horse shit.

[atlas1212]

Formless form means not being boxed in by a tradition. Unfortunately, JKD guys do that like crazy.

It's ok to do BJJ even if Bruce didn't. It's ok for one JKD guy to emphasize kicking because he has long legs and another to emphasis judo because he's short and stocky. It's finding a personal liberation from a tradition. Basically it's using common sense when training for self-defense and not ignoring good techniques because they are not in your "style".

[gungfuhero]

Like it or not, that is how JKD is. If it really were just a catch-all term for just doing your own thing with no regard, then why did he teach a common system of progression to his students? If that doesn't sit well with you, as I know it doesn't sit well with so many who still insist on using the name for whatever reasons, then don't "do" JKD. Call it whatever you want, but to completely ignore the technological base of the art negates it from being JKD. It seems as though those who espouse the name but not the art itself are the ones caught up in the name. If what you do isn't JKD, then have the creativity and security to call it something else.

[atlas1212]

Bruce Lee himself closed his schools. He said in print that if JKD ever became a "Style" or unchangable set of techniques, to get rid of the term. He often spoke about honestly expressing yourself. He was CONSTANTLY studying, learning, abandoning various styles and techniques. I'm not saying that JKD means do anything. What I am saying is that JKD as a "style" with a set curriculum from a certain era of Bruce's life would make him role over in his grave. He was a special man with amazing God given talents. He lived a life that expressed how he thought others should live. As he said, "Human beings only have 2 arms and 2 legs. Until they have 3 arms and 4 legs, there will be a different style of fighting". People who cling to JKD being a style are so misinformed about JKD and Bruce. If Bruce were alive and he did in fact keep the name JKD around, which I doubt, I think he would consider anyone who cross trains and has an open mind to learning how to express themselves in the martial arts a person who is "honestly expressing themselves".

It is possibel to study a legitimate "JKD" curriculum and attempt to do what Bruce did. The guy put a lot of effort into studying combat and mimicking his conclusions will make you a good fighter. But I think even more conceptually (and not using the term JKD because that was a term Lee coined for a style he WAS in fact trying to create) that honestly expressing yourself as a fighter is much more effective than "JKD" as a style.

Here are some BL quotes that I think back me up:

1: JKD's first concern is about its experience and not its modes of expression.

2: As to martial arts, I still practice daily. I train my students and friends twice a week. It doesn't matter if they are western boxers, taekwondo students or wrestlers. I will train them as long as they are friendly and don't get uptight.

3: I stress again that I have not created or invented any kind of martial art. JKD is derived from what I have learned, plus my evaluation of it. Thus my JKD is not confined by any kind of martial arts. On the contrary, I welcome those who like JKD to study it and improve it.

4: I've disbanded all the schools of JKD because it is very easy for a member to come in and take the agenda as "the truth" and the schedule as "the Way".

[gungfuhero]

Good points. Bruce Lee also wrote in detail how the straight punch should be thrown in JKD, the "facts of Jeet Kune Do", etc. Jeet Kune Do was Bruce Lee's expression of martial arts. And as people grow and change so did his art. However, if you completely remove HIS body of work, it is no longer Jeet Kune Do. Progressing the art yes, but scapping it all but the name...why bother to even call it JKD?

[Thai Bri]

Actually I'm not too sure that sparring is an effective method to develop Combatives. But I guess thats a whole new thread and would be considered heresy by many.