We'll worship Bruce if we want to, dammit!

[Cornholio]

And we'll listen to some cool music from his movies while doing so:

http://www.skop.com/brucelee/

After all, if it weren't for him there would be no JKD to expand our thinking. He brought an entirely new level of martial skill, physical fitness, and philosophy into the general public. And he has inspired more people to train in martial art than any other person in history. He will always be held in high regard, no matter how many people try to trash him. If you don't like it, don't come to a JKD forum of all places and expect not to read about him.

[gish13578]

glad somebody finally said it. All these people come into this forum....not just here, but everywhere...and start talking shit about bruce and slandering his name. I realize that many of the myths of bruce's superhuman feats have been sensationalized, but even disreguarding such here-say and undocumented rumors, Bruce deserves respect. Bruce broke down the cultural barriers in martial arts, and introduced them to the public. before bruce was alive, there were fewer than 500 martial arts schools in the western hemisphere, and out of those few to none would have offered instruction to someone not of their own ethnicity. Now there are probably more than 500 schools in each state alone, of all different styles. This alone is an honorable legacy that should not be spatt upon, but Bruce's steadfast determination to become the best at whatever he did was awe inspiring, and his persistance to become better even when he was the best is even more admirable. I have never seen any man before or since who was as fast, and who was as dedicated to training as bruce was. And as for bruce's philosophy, people are always saying he plagerized this, and stole that. Philosophy is not a candy bar, it cannot be stolen. It can only be interpreted, applied, and explained. And i think that bruce lee did an extraordinary job of fusing western and eastern philosophy into something which although based on prior ideals, was essentially unique and a lot easier to grasp than the tangent ideas of the original philosophies of krishna, zen buddhism, and western philosophers both old and new. Nobody can legitimately deny that bruce had a great impact on the martial arts as we know it. You may not like what he did, you may not practice jeet kune do, but please, do you really find it neccesary to talk shit about a dead man who would most certainly be able to kick your ass if he were alive? Do you really find it neccessary to go into a forum for a martial art in which you do not practice, you do not study, and criticize its founder? there are better things you could be doing with your time, and i think that any thread with "bruce vs." in the name should automatically be banned. stay out of the jeet kune do forum all you provocative assholes, we obviously dont want to here what u have to say. If you MUST talk shit about bruce, do so in a forum other than that of his martial art.

[SimonM]

Originally Posted by gish13578

Bruce broke down the cultural barriers in martial arts, and introduced them to the public.

One of the biggest criticisms of those who idolize Bruce is the belief that this is true. It is not. Wong Jack Man was teaching Wailo!

before bruce was alive, there were fewer than 500 martial arts schools in the western hemisphere, and out of those few to none would have offered instruction to someone not of their own ethnicity.

The first part MAY be true; the second part is most definately just fiction, sorry. So far you are saying that Bruce deserves to be placed beyond all criticism because his movies were popular.

Bruce's steadfast determination to become the best at whatever he did was awe inspiring, and his persistance to become better even when he was the best is even more admirable.

Ok, we are areaching the crux of the problem. Bruce was good, if you practiced as much as he did you would be just as good. He WAS NOT THE BEST!!! THERE IS NO BEST MARTIAL ARTIST AND THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ONE BEST MARTIAL ARTIST!!!

And as for bruce's philosophy, people are always saying he plagerized this, and stole that. Philosophy is not a candy bar, it cannot be stolen.

Have you ever heard of "intellectual property"?
I just finished my BA. I took three types of courses: Sociology (my major), English and Philosophy. Sociology makes reference to several economists and philosophers (Nietzsche especially) and English also references several philosophers. As a result I have studied a significant ammount about philosophy and philosophers. While it's true that philosophers tend to group in schools (such as "legalists" or "existentialists") based on their subject and approach the peer review process demands that they make original contributions to the body of knowlege. Unfortunately for Bruce his work was derivative enough that if he was trying to get a degree with it he would probably be expelled for plagirism. It was derivitive, not his original thought. It's just a fact, not necessarily an insult. He wasn't a philosopher or an academic after all, he was a martial artist.

Nobody can legitimately deny that bruce had a great impact on the martial arts as we know it.

Yes, he had an impact. He invented a popular style and he made many popular movies that influenced how people all over the world viewed martial arts. This doesn't mean he should be idolized and it doesn't make him the greatist.

i think that any thread with "bruce vs." in the name should automatically be banned.

So much for freedom of speech eh?

stay out of the jeet kune do forum all you provocative assholes, we obviously dont want to here what u have to say. If you MUST talk shit about bruce, do so in a forum other than that of his martial art.

I don't believe it is "talking shit" about Bruce Lee to say that he wasn't the greatest martial artist ever.

A large ammount of information regarding the WJM fight suggests that Linda Lee's version of events is dangerously flawed. In addition the Linda Lee founded legend of Bruce: The Liberator of Martial Arts from the Insular Chinese, Great Teacher of Wailo is insulting. This isn't Bruce Lee's fault, most of this legend was created after his death, but it still deserves comment; it's just plain not true! Mabey Gish will see me as "provocative asshole" for saying that I think WJM could have beat Bruce but I think WJM could beat me too, I think Bruce could beat me, WJM was an amazing martial artist in his prime (I'm unsure about his vital status currently) and being potentially not as good as him shouldn't be seen as a huge insult.

Stop being so touchy.

[Broadsword2004]

Bruce wasn't the best, but he did have a steadfast dedication to become the best at whatever he did. That is one of the unique attributes about him. Most people like to lye around and be lazy (look at America these days----you can't go outside without finding a fatty!).

As for his philosophy, it was the same as a lot of other philosophers. He just adapted it to himself. As for Bruce bringing martial arts into the limelight, he just did it faster and with more publicity than most anyone else. The amount of martial artists coming into the country at the time, it was bound that martial arts would get very big anyhow, if not from Bruce, than from someone else. If Bruce hadn't done it, Jackie Chan would have, or someone alongside him.

As for Bruce's fighting philosophy, about don't ever become stuck in one art, I don't know why people act like that was some profound epifany (spelling?) or insight he had, that is just pure common sense. If you are learning to really fight, you are not going to stick yourself as just being a kicker or a boxer, etc...you'll want to be well-rounded.

A further problem with Bruce I have noticed is, EVERY book on him seems to idolize him. The way the book "The Art of Expressing the Human Body" or something like that, about Bruce's workouts, the way that thing is written about Bruce, he is made to like a god.

Bruce was very inspirational, hard-working, and he did do a lot to bring martial arts to the limelight, but it isn't as if he hadn't, martial arts wouldn't be here the way they are today. They'd just have come about through someone else, like Jackie Chan or whomever.

Look at grappling and wrestling and all that. The main thing that brought those into the limelight was when Royce Gracie went through and smoked everyone in the very first UFC fight. All those fighers were standup fighters, with little or no ground skills. So Royce, with his standup and excellent ground skills (for the time), went through and beat everyone. Then the grappling craze happened, and since then, grappling/ground fighting is always emphasized in "reality-based" fighting.

If the first UFC hadn't even happened, we might still be stuck to standup arts and grappling be something only a distinct few know about, until something else brought it into the limelight.

[John McNabney]

Originally Posted by Cornholio

And we'll listen to some cool music from his movies while doing so:

http://www.skop.com/brucelee/

After all, if it weren't for him there would be no JKD to expand our thinking. He brought an entirely new level of martial skill, physical fitness, and philosophy into the general public. And he has inspired more people to train in martial art than any other person in history. He will always be held in high regard, no matter how many people try to trash him. If you don't like it, don't come to a JKD forum of all places and expect not to read about him.

I like it!. I agree. i counldn't have said it better.


Peace-Out!
John

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Originally Posted by SimonM

I just finished my BA. I took three types of courses: Sociology (my major), English and Philosophy. Sociology makes reference to several economists and philosophers (Nietzsche especially) and English also references several philosophers. As a result I have studied a significant ammount about philosophy and philosophers. While it's true that philosophers tend to group in schools (such as "legalists" or "existentialists") based on their subject and approach the peer review process demands that they make original contributions to the body of knowlege..

[Bruce(JKD)Lee]

Originally Posted by John McNabney

I like it!. I agree. i counldn't have said it better.


Peace-Out!
John

man its been awhile since i was on here, it seems the worship bruce rat has gone through the roof, thank god, i was hatin all these people sayin shit bout Bruce, good thing someone finally spoke up

[SimonM]

Originally Posted by Ryu (JKD?)

No, actually I am dead serious. I have studied Plato, Aristotle, Aurelius, Laotze, Confucius, Mencius, Zhuangtze, Epicurus, Nietzsche, Kierkegaard and quite a few others who made little lasting impression. If you feel that being listed a bunch of names isn't sufficient proof ask me a question about one of them. If you are so superior to us BA's I'm sure you can pose something at least slightly erudite.

[gregimotis]

Originally Posted by SimonM

No, actually I am dead serious. I have studied Plato, Aristotle, Aurelius, Laotze, Confucius, Mencius, Zhuangtze, Epicurus, Nietzsche, Kierkegaard and quite a few others who made little lasting impression. If you feel that being listed a bunch of names isn't sufficient proof ask me a question about one of them. If you are so superior to us BA's I'm sure you can pose something at least slightly erudite.

SimonM - I hate to tell you, but he wasn't suggesting you aren't educated, he was sugesting the you are a pretentious ass.




Did you know by the way, the the word 'erudite' can contextually be used as an adjective to describe someone as rude, boorish, or snobbish? (see that's 'irony')

[John McNabney]

What really gets me is some of the people that trash talk BL or JKD....Truly don't understand anything about what they are putting down.....so how can they judge it?


Take It Easy,
John

[fenwick99]

Mainly, anti-jkd people are of three types:1. iconoclasts who want to tarnish an idol, 2. ring/mat guys who say Lee "never really fought," and 3.
traditionalists who need to believe: "my art is best."
All three groups have yet to provide us with a better insight than Bruce of HOW TO WIN A REAL FIGHT.
Until they do that, I respect their free speech rights, but I reserve the right to
"not care"
what they say.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Gregimotis is partly right.

One of my biggest pet peeves is people from the social and political sciences working on BA's who read level entry Nietzche, Aristotle, Hume, Kant, etc. and think that they are on par with people who make philosophy their main area of study.
I already have a BA in philosophy, and am moving up the ladder to a Master's and possibly a PHD. So I don't think I need to play "battle of the philosophers" with you.

Your remark about having significant knowledge about philosophy and philosophers because of your studies in English and Sociology (and the exposure to philo you got from them) comes off as quite arrogant, and yes, just a bit pretentious.

Philosophy, just like any other science, takes years to understand, cultivate, and discuss. That's why there are degrees in it.

Now, I'm not claiming that you are not educated or that you can't give me a well thought out dissertation on Rousseau's ideas of Amour Propre and Natural Pity, but please have respect for how hard the art and practice of philosophy is, and the people who actually have their degrees in it.

[newbornballer]

I really admired and respect Bruce for all he had done in the Arts...but please don't worship Bruce..he is just man like you like me...the term "worship" isn't appropriate.

Mat.4:10

" .....Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. "

pEACE!
nbb