Dept of Homeland Security Training

[Demi Barbito]

We just finished the website update containing info and pics of the training recently conducted for the Department of Homeland Security. The new page is:

http://www.demibarbito.com/dhs.html

Demi

www.DemiBarbito.com

[Garland]

cool stuff.
I have just a few questions, though.
You seem to bash JKD...but almost all of the methodologies and areas of combat you say are essential to cover are covered in most legit JKD (Inosanto) curriculums. Most JKD instructors now incorporate almost no Jun Fan stuff...but instead tailor it to Muay Thai, the FMA, Silat, CSW, BJJ....Sayoc Kali, Pekiti tirsia, Dekiti Tirsia....and it becomes an all inclusive art, isn't that true? I mean...what is this new approach you're taking to it? A majority of JKD instructors work with no-lie blades, utilize FIST, RED, or BLAUER gear for full contact stuff...and work scenario training (mulitple assailants, different settings...etc)...it is constantly evolving.

What I really like about your course was the tactical shooting...which I feel should be incorporated into all self defense programs...the only problem is that not all people that one can teach will have access to a gun, and how many will have the gun when they need it most? Even though most JKD guys don't teach shooting....they advocate taking lessons.

You're a JKD instructor under Guro Dan, right?

[Demi Barbito]

Thanks for checking out my stuff.

"""You seem to bash JKD...but almost all of the methodologies and areas of combat you say are essential to cover are covered in most legit JKD (Inosanto) curriculums."""

I've NEVER seen a functional empty hands vs knife curriculum in any JKD class/school etc.

"""what is this new approach you're taking to it?"""

I started training JKD 16 years ago. About 8 years ago I abondoned it for what I call Self Preservation Training where the focus is on function only. JKD is full of tactical gaps. There is generally no pre fight dialog, no threat recognition, no empty hands vs knife, no clinch, no OC spray, no firearms and no blending all these together with the kick boxing, close range and ground stuff.

"""the only problem is that not all people that one can teach will have access to a gun, and how many will have the gun when they need it most?"""

Those who have them in their home or concealed carry (legally) or LEOs.

"""Even though most JKD guys don't teach shooting....they advocate taking lessons."""

Not true. Many are iffy at best about how they "feel" about guns. Others are anti firearms. I'm talking about JKD guys.

"""You're a JKD instructor under Guro Dan, right?"""

I have only trained with him once at a seminar about 10 years ago. I have no ties to him or his organization.

Thanks again for checking out my stuff.

Demi

[Garland]

...I think you're grossly misinformed about the course modern JKD has taken.
They teach less of the original stuff now then a blend of kali (inosanto blent, pekiti/dekiti tirsia...leo gaje's stuff, sayoc kali, kino mutai), BJJ and Combat submission wrestling, and muay thai. All the JKD guys I know (all from Guro Inosanto)...advocate shooting.

A great example is Burton Richardson here on this website.
Pick up his book "JKD Unlimited", it's a pretty brief overview of some of the stuff the JKD community is doing.
Everyone of Inosanto's instructors has some sort of specialty. Remember, the Inosanto academy hooks up with the Machado's, Leo Gaje, Erik Paulson, Chis Sayoc {i think}, and Adjarn Chai Sirisute...amongst a plethora of others. JKD is still keeping it on the cutting edge.

[Garland]

JKD teaches passing the blade, polysut flows, etc etc...
they teach muay thai clinche work, as well as grappling clinche work.

A popular teaching strategy is to work it into a progression, here's an example...this is only a drill to familiarise somebody with the transitions between ranges;
standing kicking, or PIA with a thai round kick, old jun fan trapping, i.e. pak sau, lop sao...to kino mutai, eye gouge with both thumbs, headbutt, back to muay thai, elbow, knee to the groin, to kali, kaputa kapala (a throw, one hand on their neck, the other on their tricep) stomp the face, standing arm break, or submission with a knee on their face.) From the throw part, you can work as if they have you in a facelock or headlock...in which case you can transition into BJJ or CSW...forearm on face, press down, pry arm off, armbar or kimura...or chicken wing..whatever.

When students go at it full contact, with fist gear...they can now blend into a variety of different ranges, and use what striking, grappling, clinche, etc...that they've been taught. It's all about fluidity.

[Demi Barbito]

I do not use any jun fan trapping at all. I do not like Kali in it's totality and I do not like shooting at all. I like Tactical use of firearms. "Shooting" would be like saying "punching".

I know what works and what does not. I've trained with everyone and looked under every rock and peeked into every closet. Until human beings grow a second head things are quite obvious.

"""When students go at it full contact, with fist gear...they can now blend into a variety of different ranges, and use what striking, grappling, clinche, etc...that they've been taught."""

I've been using FIST and REDMAN gear for years. I know what you can and cannot do with it. "Fluidity" with that gear is iffy at best. Hybrid gear is the best way to go. No one brand allows for total movement.

"""JKD teaches passing the blade, polysut flows, etc etc..."""

No offense to anyone but "I" think that is some of the worst, I mean the worst, material available for counter knife work.

These are "my" understandings and opinions and I will not be moved.

I know what I need for Self Preservation and what is useless and to be discarded. People only have so much time to train and gross motor, functional skill sets (empty hand and weapons) are the best options.

I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just telling you what I know to be true.

Demi

[Garland]

Originally Posted by Demi Barbito

"
No one brand allows for total movement.

No offense to anyone but "I" think that is some of the worst, I mean the worst, material available for counter knife work.

Demi

That's cool...and I respect that. I also agree that the protective gear, any type...will NEVER be able to replace the real thing, and total movement is key...but not all of us can afford to train like the DogBrothers all the time.

I am curious, however, to know what you consider to be the best knife work, best drills...etc. Almost everyone I know swears by the FMA for edged weapons work...but if you've got a better thing...I'd love to check it out, I believe that learning everything is best, and then you can pick and choose.
Where does the knife work you encorporate come from?

[Demi Barbito]

Kali has tremendous merit for weapon vs weapon. There are numerous elements that I find unuseable however, alot actually. The core elements are all you would use anyway. There are elements that have been developed thru years of training that do not have roots in Kali.

As far as empty hand vs knife the core elements come from a broad spectrum of arts. We are going into production on a Counter Knife DVD in the next few weeks. It will be a totally comprehensive look at what our program covers.

Demi

[Garland]

Originally Posted by Demi Barbito

Kali has tremendous merit for weapon vs weapon. There are numerous elements that I find unuseable however, alot actually. The core elements are all you would use anyway. There are elements that have been developed thru years of training that do not have roots in Kali.

As far as empty hand vs knife the core elements come from a broad spectrum of arts. We are going into production on a Counter Knife DVD in the next few weeks. It will be a totally comprehensive look at what our program covers.

Demi

Sounds cool...I'll start saving up for it!

[Patrick G.]

my 2cents...

Demi, although I disagree with some of the things you say pertaining to JKD, i also agree with you on about just as much, if not more...

However, you seem to teach the very same things you degrade! One only has to pay a visit to your website to see images of people using double sticks, grappling on the ground, and training with movement-hindering protective equipment..it seems almost like you are contradicting youself...

I'm sorry, but everybody and their moma's use the word "tactical" nowadays to differentiate themselves from "everyone else" and promote themselves and their school. That's what it seems like you are trying to do..and there is nothing really wrong with that, but you need to know that you are following the path of JKD, whether you realize it or not... (1. Research you own experience 2. Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless 3. Add what is specifically your own This was outlined by Dan and Bruce a long time ago)

You say you advocate the use of firearms and being prepared to use them. I am assuming you also advocate concealed handgun carry, as I myself have a license to do. But you also go into saying that Kali is useless for unarmed vs. armed scenarios, so you teach how to defend empty-handedly against a knife weilding person...why would someone "prepared" not have a knife in the first place? I have a Texas CHL, but I keep my Benchmade Griptilian folder on me at ALL times, because as a wise man once said, "Empty hand fighting is only for a fool who has been caught without his weapon".

But we're not talking about me here. We are talking about your opinions and your sytem, which seems to be a very good system, no doubt. I've known about it for some time now, and sometimes it's almost like your reading my mind when you post here...but I have to disagree with you on the whole JKD not really being functional thing... because whether you realize it or not, you are on your own path of JKD...

I guess I'm lucky enough to have an Inosanto certified instructor that's just as much into the training of firearms as you and I...

[Demi Barbito]

"""why would someone "prepared" not have a knife in the first place? I have a Texas CHL, but I keep my Benchmade Griptilian folder on me at ALL times, because as a wise man once said, "Empty hand fighting is only for a fool who has been caught without his weapon"."""

I have to address this one first.

Even if I have a knife, a gun, a flamer thrower etc... a knife attack will probably require an empty hand response "first", before any weapon can be deployed. So just because your carrying your knife does not mean it would be a good idea to deploy it with thrusts and slashes tearing you up.

The same goes for firearms. A .45 in a holster may not get out in time to nuetralize the attacker. It will sometimes be an empty hand problem before it's a weapons problem.

Even though you might see people doing double stick work at my place it's the "way" in which it is done which may be different. In other words, dead patterns and box drills are not used. A person might be shown these drills but only to warn them against them. On occasion aperson might request to learn them and I will show them but this material will not be "trained" in our environment. That is different than many schools which will use box patterns for decades. Things move into gross motor - high probability tactics right away. This applies to all elements.


JKD has been standardized in many cases with what any given instructor has learned from his instructor. What Bruce Lee did in 1964 was different than what he did in 1973... No standards, only performance based outcomes count.

Demi

[Patrick G.]

Originally Posted by Demi Barbito

"""why would someone "prepared" not have a knife in the first place? I have a Texas CHL, but I keep my Benchmade Griptilian folder on me at ALL times, because as a wise man once said, "Empty hand fighting is only for a fool who has been caught without his weapon"."""

I have to address this one first.

Even if I have a knife, a gun, a flamer thrower etc... a knife attack will probably require an empty hand response "first", before any weapon can be deployed. So just because your carrying your knife does not mean it would be a good idea to deploy it with thrusts and slashes tearing you up.

The same goes for firearms. A .45 in a holster may not get out in time to nuetralize the attacker. It will sometimes be an empty hand problem before it's a weapons problem.

I TOTALLY agree with you here...but ONLY on the understanding that the empty hand techniques taught are only (or primarily) means to allow time to draw the weapon...NOT as means to disarm the weapon itself..

[Sensei Saki]

I'm glad we agree. You and your you here.Interesting.
What about the other ones?If not that, what?

[Patrick G.]

Originally Posted by Sensei Saki

I'm glad we agree. You and your you here.Interesting.
What about the other ones?If not that, what?

lol, how do u post so damn fast!

[Demi Barbito]

"""I TOTALLY agree with you here...but ONLY on the understanding that the empty hand techniques taught are only (or primarily) means to allow time to draw the weapon...NOT as means to disarm the weapon itself.."""

You may never get to the weapon. It's all dependent upon your opponent and his dynamics and intent. You may have to "solve" the problem emptyhanded even if you are armed. You cannot dictate the tactics used, you can only respond. You will always be coming from behind the power curve against a spontaneous attack unless you are the attacker (criminal).