What is Sticky Hands?

[dapperdan]

I was wondering what the hell sticky hands are. I have read about sticking hands, but dont have any idea what they are talking about.

D

[EmptyneSs]

sticky hands is what happens when u watch too much internet pOrn.

[Thai Bri]

It is part of the training regime for Wing Chun practitioners.

They train in twos, each having their forearms in cinttact with each other. They move to set patterns initially, working up to the stage where they try to break through each others' guards.

The idea is that the hands can move too quickly for th eye, so they learn to feel each others movements in order to successfully defend themselves.

I trained WC for a while, and still find that this touch sensitivity can work when play fighting. But when those punches are flying in for real? The sticky hands nonsense goes out of the window, and your best bet is to be throwing some better shots right back.

[osopardo]

Originally Posted by Thai Bri

It best bet is to be throwing some better shots right back.

and making them stick?

[shaolin-warrior]

We also use the sticky hand drills in shaolin kempo, It does help with reaction time and keeping your focus sharp. This drill is done at real close range, and it's easy to get tagged with a punch. But after getting faster, put an attacker or an agressor at an arms length away and you'll see the difference in your speed and your ability to avoid contact or seize and control.

[Hardball]

Wing chun calls it chi sao and tai chi calls it sticky hands? Right?

[Thai Bri]

Wrong. Tai Chi has "pushing hands", and it is not the same thing.

Sticky Hands is the English term for Wing Chuns Chi Sao.

[Hardball]

Originally Posted by Thai Bri

Wrong. Tai Chi has "pushing hands", and it is not the same thing.

Sticky Hands is the English term for Wing Chuns Chi Sao.

Thanks, I'm glad I humbled myself and posed it as a question. Makes plenty of sense now. So what is pushing hands?

[Thai Bri]

I don't know enough about Tai Chi to comment.

[BoarSpear]

Originally Posted by Hardball

Thanks, I'm glad I humbled myself and posed it as a question. Makes plenty of sense now. So what is pushing hands?

The exercise we were left with after hitting hands was watered down when Tai chi Chuan was made public Its pretty much see who can in get a deeper horse stance and shove the other guy useless crap now

[Tant01]

I don't like to type too much but I yanked this from a couple other sites to give some idea of the intent of sticky hands...Single and double sticky-hands (chi-sao). These drills help the student develop sensitivity and timing through feeling an opponent’s commitment. ... students (need) to be conscious of whether or not they feel commitment (or energy) on their wrist or elbow. If an opponent grabs the wrist, the student brings up the elbow into a bong sao (Wing Block). Conversely, energy applied to the elbow should cause the student to immediately drop the elbow into a tan sao (Upper Side Block). The main concept to remember is to "be like water," as Bruce Lee often told his students, and flow with the energy.

CHI - SAU training is accomplished by two students joining their forearms (the BRIDGE) and "rolling" through a preset series of movements. The preset movements are only the starting point to come back to after there is action ie. an attack, counter attack, etc. While rolling through this cycle the students are "feeling" the other students level of commitment (force) in order that they can properly react to any weakness in the others defense or an attack from the other. After time, the reactions become "AUTOMATIC" and the techniques learned , apply and adjust themselves as the heightened sensitivity dictates. Simply put, the hands auto-automatically find the holes, thus, the reaction literally becomes an "AUTO-PILOT". (At this stage the trapping and sticking part should be freestyle)

Two other fundamentals are married to this "AUTO-PILOT" to make Wing Chun effective. They are, the center line theory and the technique of simultaneous block and attack (Lin Sil Die Dar). The center line theory dictates that no two objects can occupy the center without colliding with each-other. Therefore, all Wing Chun techniques are initiated from, and occupy, the center thus colliding with "incoming traffic". The result is excellent defense, but more importantly "the turning on of the AUTO-PILOT SYSTEM". During CHI-SAU training, if a hole is found and control of the "center line" is gained, it is next to impossible for the opponent to regain control as the center is now being filled with a barrage of punches and traps. It is like a WAR. Once ground is gained, the Wing Chun practitioner never gives it back! Simultaneous block and attack speaks for itself. Why have an idle hand? To block with one hand while striking with the other follows the basic Wing Chun principles of Simplicity, Efficiency and Practicality...

Throw in some low line attacks with your sticky feet and gravity will become your new best friend!

[gabbah]

So do wing chun practicioners ever train with grappling gloves so that they can actually hit eachother and make it more realistic?

I wonder if a wing chun guy feels safe if a kickboxer with the same amount of training would sparr him (grappling gloves). I mean, if his defense doesn't hold up he will get hit right on the jaw line, because his chin is not tucked and his arms are not near his face for protection. But the kickboxer on the other hand, besides having a pretty good protection of his face at all times, if he starts getting hit, will go to his cover up shell where he's quite protected, especially against straight punches.
It's just that wing chun is so dependant on not making one singe mistake, with the chin up in the air like that. But boxers and kickboxers will be so much harder to hit clean on the chin it seems.

I'm asking if the sticky hands thingy does work for real.

[Thai Bri]

Wing Chun positions defend against Wing Chun attacks. Its the old story of an art merely teaching you to defend against that particular art.

Thats why they introduced their fairly ridiculous "Anti Grappling!" that some would have you believe was in the system all along......

But the Wing Chun method, its in original form, would be a dream for a Western Boxer. They're used to trying to hit protected, moving chins. That chin in the air in a stationary position spells C H R I S T M A S to them.

[gabbah]

hehehe... yeah.

But I'm trying to give wing chun a chance here.
THEORETICALLY, they could block the boxers first punch, and at the same time throw their first punch, and follow up with chain punches.
Remember, we're talking either UFC gloves or no gloves at all here. So the chain punching will have an effect even if each individual punch is not so strong.
Would it work?

I went to a wing chun school with a friend just to get a laugh. Dammit, we couldn't stop smiling when they broke out the wing chun stance, I just find it hilarious. And doing that centerline weak punching hehe.
Then did have some good stuff though.
I asked why you have to stand in that stance if you don't use it in a fight, and the instructor didn't have a clearcut answer... he said "it's wing chun", "it's an art", "it strengthens hips and legs", and "it lets you focus on the arms". Well there are better way of strengthening hips and legs. And if you were allowed to stand in a more natural stance it would be much easier to focus on the arms. I didn't tell him that of course hehe.

When we were about to leave we saw a few people training in another room. They were doing some sparring drills it seems. They told us that it was the instructors training (they were allowed to sparr). Hehe they looked like beginners in kickboxing or something. They didn't use their wing chun principles. The instructor even told me that it looked like thaiboxing when they sparr, and that they use thai techniques.
Umm ok... so the instructors, who have been training for years, suck at it.
Oh and we were told that it was impolite to watch them train. We asked why (the hell) is that, and they said it puts pressure on them to have people looking... hahaha aren't they instructors??? Talk about a different athmospehere. In my kickboxing gym, beginners are encouraged to look at more advanced training. Maybe they didn't like it because they know they suck, and that the stuff the have been drilling for so long isn't used!
So you have to drill stuff in a silly stance for a long time, that you will not even use later on... Is it because it has no chance of actually working?
Or is it only because their training methods are dead patterns, never taking it to a more realistic hardcore level?

[Thai Bri]

You are very cruel.

Now I didn't say that's a bad thing.....