Hey This guy Tommy carruthers Is preety fast

[thtackett]

I do think that full contact sparring as realistic as possible and as safe as possible is important to learning JKD as well as other arts, But I guess that someone who has never sparred but has honed his tools could be good also. It all depends on the person. Bruce Lee stressed full contact sparring. In Sifu Inosanto's backyard we did a lot of technique training on Tuesday night. Thursday night was a lot of different sparring drills and matches. Bob Bremer and Dan Lee were the least fun to spar with. Don't forget that the one of the main reasons for learning to fight is so you never have to.

[ddrive]

Originally Posted by thtackett

I do think that full contact sparring as realistic as possible and as safe as possible is important to learning JKD as well as other arts, But I guess that someone who has never sparred but has honed his tools could be good also. It all depends on the person. Bruce Lee stressed full contact sparring. In Sifu Inosanto's backyard we did a lot of technique training on Tuesday night. Thursday night was a lot of different sparring drills and matches. Bob Bremer and Dan Lee were the least fun to spar with. Don't forget that the one of the main reasons for learning to fight is so you never have to.

I kinda disagree with you in a very humble manner. In my opinion a person goes through three phases when learning new techniques:

1. A Technique's Movement - Self explanatory.
2. Understanding of the Technique - Gives a student an insight to the techniques meaning, and how one can train to build power and speed for that specific technique.

3. Application of the Technique - Once you've acquired the first two, then you have develop "experience" to know what situations are best to excute that technique (tactics). The usually requires a lot of heavy sparring, competition, and/or actual fights. Since everyone is different, everyone will have their own way of excuting that technique.

If you guys feel differently, please let me know.

[thtackett]

I don't diaagree, but do you need real street fights where you stand a good chance of going to jail? A friend of Jim Sewell's was called outside by a guy that had a beef with him. The guy threw the first punch. Jim's friend hit him. The guy fell down and hit his head on a concrete planter and died. Jim's friend spend 6 years in prison.

[ddrive]

Originally Posted by thtackett

I don't diaagree, but do you need real street fights where you stand a good chance of going to jail? A friend of Jim Sewell's was called outside by a guy that had a beef with him. The guy threw the first punch. Jim's friend hit him. The guy fell down and hit his head on a concrete planter and died. Jim's friend spend 6 years in prison.

You are right. I don't encourage anyone here to get involved with street fighting. All i'm saying is that you learn from testing your skills with another individual that provides resistance.

[thtackett]

I think you are right. You do need "alive" training.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by thtackett

I think you are right. You do need "alive" training.

Mr. Tackett, thank you for participating in the forum...

I don't know how many folks just take a minute to say that but I wanted to be one of them.

Thanks for your time and input. I especially appreciate the perspective you offer.

I would like to know more about the separation between Jun Fan and JKD

In another thread (last year*) you mentioned that you were given a certificate to teach the JKD but other certificates say Jun Fan?

Is this to signify a second generation student or is there more to JKD than what is taught to Jun Fan instructors?

Is there a difference that might be observable to another martial artist?


Again many thanks.



Raymond G.






* See "best striking art"

[ecamd1025]

[QUOTE=robertlee]

Originally Posted by ecamd1025

When you are the one in the ring doing the fighting It boils down to you do what you do. Looking at a fight yes anybody can find flaws in what could have been done but could have a would have is not in there doing it. Same for on the streets or anywhere. What you do under stress of a resistive person fighting back You do. Not being hit not haveing someone in front of you that is trying to out fight you. You can see many things that can be done different. And never testing those tools in some sort of live training a person really does not know how effective they are aginst a unwilling opponent. Yes training methods can make you better. BUT you need to test those methods some how to see how well they work .

Ofcourse live training is important but it is to test tactics and etc.., but where are the tactics to test if all you want to do is whip somebodies ass. That thinking is narrowminded and goes in one direction, not seeing the many opportunities that can be taken. This what I said can be seen in a real fight. The reason people outside the ring can see it is because they are concerned with the fight as a whole. Not just heres the opponent beat his butt. A fighter that has a goal in mind is a mechanical being. There really is no opponent psychologically. You make the opponent youself. The division you create between yourself and the other person gives you a reason to solve what is ahead of you, ex-The opponent. This can not be understood verbally or intellectually but seen without intention.

Study your self and your boddy movement, you will see it is the same as the other persons. The body feel, sensitivity, is very important. How to know someone is relaxed, they drop their guard, they step out of the on guard position. Many more ways. they start walking normally. these are all clues noticeable by anyone facing an opponent in the ring, but this non- dimensional way of looking at a fight has nothing to do with a one dimensional fighter. He cant even see that.

[ecamd1025]

Honestly I dont think there is any specific method for everyone. I deny the existance of systems. Since they take time. Im not trying to quote bruce lee. But no one metions perception. Thinking takes Time a system or method takes time. I dont mean cronologically. For you to act something out you see it, think it or remember, then act. Bruce lee talked about being able to perceive the opponent as not seperate. You are the opponent. ANd you dont think based on patterns. You dont think at all. Ofcourse repetitiion of technique is needed, but that is not a method or way.
To fight at that moment not of memory from the past, but fighting as you are the opponent. This is not philosophy, this is actuall. If anyone is actually interested then read Jiddu krishnamurti. If you do read it with a goal in mind you are not interested. To try to achieve something is Time and that has many paths. But we are talking about something that there is no path or way to. Because a way signifies ?

Originally Posted by ddrive

I kinda disagree with you in a very humble manner. In my opinion a person goes through three phases when learning new techniques:

1. A Technique's Movement - Self explanatory.
2. Understanding of the Technique - Gives a student an insight to the techniques meaning, and how one can train to build power and speed for that specific technique.

3. Application of the Technique - Once you've acquired the first two, then you have develop "experience" to know what situations are best to excute that technique (tactics). The usually requires a lot of heavy sparring, competition, and/or actual fights. Since everyone is different, everyone will have their own way of excuting that technique.

If you guys feel differently, please let me know.

[jeff5]

Originally Posted by Tant01

Mr. Tackett, thank you for participating in the forum...


I would like to know more about the separation between Jun Fan and JKD

Mr Tackett I'd like to echo what Tanto said! Great seeing you post.

Tanto here's my understanding and what I've been taught. Jun Fan is the martial art that Bruce Lee taught before Jeet Kune Do was conceived. (Lee Jun Fan is his actual name) Its an actual system, with its base in boxing, wing chun, savate, northern praying mantis, and many other styles. Most of what you'll see in Jun Fan is boxing/kick boxing and Wing Chun trapping, including sensitivty drills and the Wooden Dummy form. There are also some grappling techinques. I believe it was taught in the Seattle and Oakland schools, but also in the LA schools before JKD, although I'm sure elements of Jun Fan were still taught in the LA schools after JKD was conceived.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by jeff5

Mr Tackett I'd like to echo what Tanto said! Great seeing you post.

Tanto here's my understanding and what I've been taught. Jun Fan is the martial art that Bruce Lee taught before Jeet Kune Do was conceived. (Lee Jun Fan is his actual name) Its an actual system, with its base in boxing, wing chun, savate, northern praying mantis, and many other styles. Most of what you'll see in Jun Fan is boxing/kick boxing and Wing Chun trapping, including sensitivty drills and the Wooden Dummy form. There are also some grappling techinques. I believe it was taught in the Seattle and Oakland schools, but also in the LA schools before JKD, although I'm sure elements of Jun Fan were still taught in the LA schools after JKD was conceived.

Thanks for the feedback...

[thtackett]

When I started training in Sifu & old friend Dan Inosanto's backyard. There was no mention of Jun Fan Gung Fu. We were learning what was called Jeet Kune Do at what was called the Jun Fan Gung Fu Institute which we were told meant Bruce Lee's School. After Bruce's death, Dan opened the Kali Academy but didn't want to teach JKD openly to just anybody as Dan had made a promise to Bruce that he would not teach JKD to the general public. Our backyard group moved over to the Kali Academy. It became a closed door group. Dan then opened up a class whch he call Jun Fan. It consisted of 4 phases. If a student got through allfor phases he could be voted into the JKD class. This was considered a special honor. This early Kali Academy consisted of people like Vunak, Magda, and Richardson. When the seminars came about in the late 1970's people advertised that Dan, or Larry, or I would be teaching JKD. Dan wanted Larry Hartsell and me to teach the JKD because we had not made any promise to Bruce. Dan just wanted to make sure that JKD was not put on any seminar certificate. Jun Fan Gung Fu. At the same time the JKD group had a symbol on our tee shirt that said "Jeet Kune Do" and "Chinese Kickboxing" on it. There was only that one symbol at that time. I think that the reason I was chosen to teach at the summer camps was that I was a school teacher and was off during the summer. Larry was teaching JKD for a living at the time but everybody else had full time jobs. For example, Dan Lee was a the Jet Propulsion Lab and Richard Bustillo was working for an airline.
As for the difference beween Jun Fan and JKD. There really wasn't any then, but I think that there is a lot of difference now, but that's a subject that I don't really like to go into.
Tim

[Tant01]

You are a gentleman and a scholar! Thank you Sir!

[robertlee]

Ecamd 1025. Then are you saying you do train in live training such as sparing either light or full contact. That is the point of resistive training. Development training is fine and needed. open drills are ok. But at some point live resistive training tests the tools. It does not have to be just fighting but say fighting to learn more in a way. //// Thank you Tim for posting about Jun fan// Jeet kune Do. perhaps it will help clear up for some as to What is or is not JKD. Much debate goes on about this.

[JkD187]

Its awesome to have Tim on these threads...a true class act.As for ecamd1025 i really think you need to step in and prepare for a amatuer MMA fight....i mean you seem to talk a good game with your critique sheet..but when you step into the gym and train hard for those weeks and step in the ring...you will have learned something that can only be experienced.Now i know your not going to do this but you really should....Its great to see others points of view.

[ecamd1025]

Originally Posted by robertlee

Ecamd 1025. Then are you saying you do train in live training such as sparing either light or full contact. That is the point of resistive training. Development training is fine and needed. open drills are ok. But at some point live resistive training tests the tools. It does not have to be just fighting but say fighting to learn more in a way. //// Thank you Tim for posting about Jun fan// Jeet kune Do. perhaps it will help clear up for some as to What is or is not JKD. Much debate goes on about this.

I never said I did not, people just assumed. I never mentioned yes or no. Yes that Is what I mean. I do not understand what you mean by resistive training everything else is understood. Thank You