Tommy Carruthers - The Verdict/The Lowdown ???

[ASHTANGA05]

What are peoples opinions on Tommy Carruthers , as many regard him as being of only average skill & knowledge. Others say he is phenomenal like a Bruce Lee No.2.

Many also have noted what he is doing does not look much like JKD a lot of the time :-

http://www.network54.com/Forum/10355...150906761/T.+C.

Or got to Hardcore JKD site forum & few pages in , thread on him and Lamar Davis's opinion.

Gary Dill has also said who trained Tommy Carruthers at one point, his reputation far, far exceeds his skill level, and he does not actually know that much, but tries to pass of he really knows everything. Gary Dill now tells people to avoid training with Tommy Carruthers like the plague.

His reputation is much like Lamar Davis's and many regard him as a 'bigmouth' and of questionable certification/lineage/knowledge. It is well known Tommy has been formally challenged by Ken Shamrock, Rick Young, Mark Mcfann and others. He refused them all, and was said with one of them to be visibly shaking and afraid , whilst being challenged face to face. Ken Shamrock challenged him on the net on his own forum & apparently it was the real Ken Shamrock that did it; Rick Young JKD guy from Scotland went through to Tommy Carruthers place and challenged him - that was where Tommy visibly was shaking & afraid , and backed down . Apparently had been bad mouthing Rick Young , Jeet Kune Do Concepts, Dan Inosanto, etc, Rick took exception to it & paid him a visit (anyone thinking Rick who? he is Dan Inosanto's top Instructor in Europe, and regarded as the best all round martial artist in UK by many). The challenges are not at all surprising, anyone with real big mouth in the martial arts world, will get called on it at somepoint, that is their lookout.

Others say he is great & Bruce Lee No. 2 :-

http://www.tommycarruthers.com/tommycarruthers.htm

See parts about Tommy Carruthers lower down.


What are other peoples thoughts on him?

From videoclips, etc I have seen I would say in all honesty he looks limited - fast standing still striking, but when actually moving he suddenly appears less sharp. As others have noted the hands look more like Kenpo fast hand combinations, than JKD. The speed also he is fast obviously but there are many faster, and his fast movements usually are very short techniques, throwing a full technique punch from his body to face or finger jab he is noticeably slower. THe fast short combinations, if you practice them enough you can give the impression you are much faster than you actually are , using short movements & practicing pre-arranged moves over and over. There is also definite telegraphing in a lot of his movements, often masked as he is moving fast, but it is there for sure. He is in good condition for man in mid 40's, so respect! But his physical feats are nothing extraordrinary & many athletes can do them, or exceed them. As for his knowledge level - I heard he was mainly self taught for years and attended few seminars with Dan Inosanto, Paul Vunak, etc before going it alone, then joining up with Gary Dill's JKD association. Then later doing brief training with Jesse Glover and Ted Wong.

[jeffmichaels]

He is a bouncer and he lloks very quick. As a wing chun man, I can decipher some wing chun combo's in his movments, at least what the naked eye can pick up. Maybe Tommy should fight WJM....

[thtackett]

About 5 years ago he came and stayed at my house for about a week and trained every day. He's also worked a lot with Ted Wong and Jesse Glover. He's really very good. His students were some of the best JKD students i've worked with, but I've only been to his school once. I know he is very out spoken and can piss people off, but he's the real deal.
Tim Tackett

Originally Posted by ASHTANGA05

What are peoples opinions on Tommy Carruthers , as many regard him as being of only average skill & knowledge. Others say he is phenomenal like a Bruce Lee No.2.

Many also have noted what he is doing does not look much like JKD a lot of the time :-

http://www.network54.com/Forum/10355...150906761/T.+C.

Or got to Hardcore JKD site forum & few pages in , thread on him and Lamar Davis's opinion.

Gary Dill has also said who trained Tommy Carruthers at one point, his reputation far, far exceeds his skill level, and he does not actually know that much, but tries to pass of he really knows everything. Gary Dill now tells people to avoid training with Tommy Carruthers like the plague.

His reputation is much like Lamar Davis's and many regard him as a 'bigmouth' and of questionable certification/lineage/knowledge. It is well known Tommy has been formally challenged by Ken Shamrock, Rick Young, Mark Mcfann and others. He refused them all, and was said with one of them to be visibly shaking and afraid , whilst being challenged face to face. Ken Shamrock challenged him on the net on his own forum & apparently it was the real Ken Shamrock that did it; Rick Young JKD guy from Scotland went through to Tommy Carruthers place and challenged him - that was where Tommy visibly was shaking & afraid , and backed down . Apparently had been bad mouthing Rick Young , Jeet Kune Do Concepts, Dan Inosanto, etc, Rick took exception to it & paid him a visit (anyone thinking Rick who? he is Dan Inosanto's top Instructor in Europe, and regarded as the best all round martial artist in UK by many). The challenges are not at all surprising, anyone with real big mouth in the martial arts world, will get called on it at somepoint, that is their lookout.

Others say he is great & Bruce Lee No. 2 :-

http://www.tommycarruthers.com/tommycarruthers.htm

See parts about Tommy Carruthers lower down.


What are other peoples thoughts on him?

From videoclips, etc I have seen I would say in all honesty he looks limited - fast standing still striking, but when actually moving he suddenly appears less sharp. As others have noted the hands look more like Kenpo fast hand combinations, than JKD. The speed also he is fast obviously but there are many faster, and his fast movements usually are very short techniques, throwing a full technique punch from his body to face or finger jab he is noticeably slower. THe fast short combinations, if you practice them enough you can give the impression you are much faster than you actually are , using short movements & practicing pre-arranged moves over and over. There is also definite telegraphing in a lot of his movements, often masked as he is moving fast, but it is there for sure. He is in good condition for man in mid 40's, so respect! But his physical feats are nothing extraordrinary & many athletes can do them, or exceed them. As for his knowledge level - I heard he was mainly self taught for years and attended few seminars with Dan Inosanto, Paul Vunak, etc before going it alone, then joining up with Gary Dill's JKD association. Then later doing brief training with Jesse Glover and Ted Wong.

[ASHTANGA05]

Tim Tackett,

That may well be , but people calling Tommy Carruthers is Bruce Lee No.2 , or as good as or better than Bruce Lee is frankly RIDICULOUS!

He is not even close to Bruce Lee's ability & need not kid himself; its worrying he may actually believe his own hype.

Tommy attended seminars with Dan Inosanto, Larry Hartsell , etc in the past; none of them were astounded at his skill level , or thought 'wow he's as good as Bruce', jut another face in the crowd to them.

He originally got certified by Gary Dill, maybe as bogus as Jerry Beasley in the JKD world!; which doesn't add to his credibilty. Heard Gary Dill never used to claim he even met Bruce Lee, now he claims he did meet him, worse he does 'Mystical' pressure point stuff at is seminars now incl. knocking out people at a distance without touching them - oh dear!

As I said when Tommy stands still he looks much better than when he moves, then you realise he is nothing that special.

[JKDBerlin]

Well, like TC himself I wouldn't give a **** what others say about him. I invited him for a seminar to find out for myself and I was positivly impressed by his teaching and his performing ability. He offers some very good stuff for people who can see outside their own perimeter. He can add to my development as a martial artist and a JKD participant.
This politics suck, and people who only talk politics suck too.

Greetings

[Thai Bri]

I find it hard to believe that Rick Young would lower himself to go and "challenge" someone.

[ASHTANGA05]

Thai Brai,

It did happen trust me. But you have to understand the situation & reasons. You are right Rick is an incredibly nice guy & not the sort to go around challenging people. Rick is incredibly loyal to Dan Inosanto, and respects everyone opinion but often he feels critcism is not constructive of Dan its just misinformed nonsense. It had been going on for years, Rick would hear about things Tommy Carruthers had said on himself and Dan Inosanto, the Krause brothers (also in Scotland), etc.

So eventually Rick went through to Tommy's place and asked him to explain himself what he had been saying, and that if he had issues with what Dan Inosanto or himself was teaching regarding JKD , they could have it out right there and then. Tommy visibly shaking and afraid, apologised and said he did not want to fight; he also said he had great respect for Dan & would never talk badly of him (even though Rick knew for certain he had). And that was that, no big deal.

Rick Young does not go around challenging people, but in this instance he had heard enough , and went to his place , and particularly as he was in his own country Scotland. Most under Dan & loyal to him would have done the same if Tommy had been in their area - what is your problem?.

Tommy speaks very badly on a lot of people Dan Inosanto, Patrick Strong, Paul Vunak, Krause brothers (and they are in the same city as him - Glasgow!), etc. But he never ever says it to their faces. As Tim Tackett said above he p***** off a great deal of people with his outspoken views, and it is definitely not the sort of thing to do in the martial arts world today for obvious reasons.

When he had Patrick Strong over for seminar while back, after he left and went back to U.S. he bad mouthed him a lot, not just direct to his students but publically on his forum too. Just not the sort of thing you do, and shows the kind of person he is. If you have someone over for seminar & don't like what they are teaching & feel it was not worth getting them over; it's simple - don't get them again. But don't wait till they have left your country then bad mouth them. Some of Patrick Strong's students naturally took great offence also.

Regarding his credentials he originally was certified by Gary Dill! - Gary Dill now speaks very poorly of him, email him and you can ask. He went the Concepts route for a while attending seminars with Paul Vunak, Dan Inosanto, Larry Hartsell, etc - but realised certification would take years so took another route. He has trained with Jesse Glover, but Jesse does not certify people & so he is not certified by him. He has trained with Ted Wong & was supposedly certified by him at a Jun Fan JKD Nucleus meeting in the U.S. , others say it was not actual certification; anyway he is not listed on Ted Wong's site as one of his Instructors that much is certain.

[crusader]

Originally Posted by ASHTANGA05

anyway he is not listed on Ted Wong's site as one of his Instructors THAT MUCH IS CERTAIN.

Certain ? Did you know Ted Wong's old official site ? Something with the term "XTee" within the URL ?

Regards

[JKDBerlin]

Well, the time he was teaching and staying here h didn't say a bad word about anybody.

Greetings

[ASHTANGA05]

Crusader ,

http://www.totallyjkd.com/tw_instructors.php

Nope, definitely not there! Unless Teri Tom is actually Tommy Carruthers icognito & disguised.

[crusader]

That's not Ted Wong's former website. Did you know that one?

[ASHTANGA05]

Crusader,

Talk some sense please! Who the f*** cares about Ted Wong's former website? Is it still up if so post www. Tommy Carruthers is NOT listed as an Instructor on his current site & thats what counts! Anyone thinking , I'll check if this Tommy Carruthers really is an Instructor under Ted Wong, would go to Ted's site and look, he's not listed!

Former sites, Tommy was on Gary Dill's site ages ago, he's not anymore - so what? Gary Dill no longer recognises him as an Instructor, no longer recognises the 'Basic' certificate he got, and tells people to avoid training with him like the plague.

Regarding Rick Young going through to Tommy's place, it did happen, I know that for a fact, and Tommy won't deny it either I'm sure - he might not admit he was shaking , scared & apologetic, after all he has his Bruce Lee No. 2 tough guy image to maintain.

[crusader]

If someone loses his title, does he lose his skill and knowledge ?

Political bullshit which makes no sense...

[eXcessiveForce]

I can't find Ted Wong's instructorship on Bruce Lee's website. Oh wait, I forgot, Bruce doesn't have a website because he's dead.

[JKDGUY]

That is true crusader. Alot of these guys out there have associations and you have to maintain a certain number of hours, bring them in for seminars or fly out to there place and train with them in order to maintain your certification and if you do not meet thoserequirements then you will not be listed on their website. It does not mean that your certification that your worked for is not not any good. You have the certificate and you have the training and you can still teach what you learn. What I want to know is how Ashtanga knows all the gossip and scoop on people all the way across the freaking ocean that he has never trained with? I think I am going to start calling him Ma Bell (since it seems like everyone calls to let him know the low down on whats going on in the ma world) Look forward to one of your snappy come backs on this post to Ash "ma bell" Tanga
Hey guys wait a minute...isn't Ashtanga a style of Yoga...
Yep it is I just did a google search and found a site www.ashtanga.com it is all about yoga. It says "This method of Yoga involves synchronizing the breath with progressive series of postures—a process producing intense internal heat and a profuse, purifying sweat that detoxifies muscles and organs. The result is improved circulation, a light and strong body, and a calm mind." I think I figured out Ashtanga05's secret to all those whitty come backs and all his knowledge on the martial arts...he is a Yoga master and has reached the higher level of enlightenment.

All bow to Ashtanga "Yoga Master"