philosophy in jkd

[kiddbjj]

hey guys

how important is philosophy and the mental aspects to training and life in jkd circles.

i know that bruce lee was very much a forward thinker in terms of explorig and utilising the most efficient physical tools and techniques but at the same time he seemed to be very much a student of many old schools of thought (religion,philosophy etc). do these themes make up much of what is taught as jkd today. are they necessary?

appreciate any input or experiences you guys have. i think its an interesting topic because bruce seemed like a man that 'lived' his martial art rather than just treating it as a hobby or sport

[John McNabney]

Well I can't speak for anyone else, but it is very much part of my life........I'm "Being" instead of "Doing" and at the present time I'm enjoying the moment! When I'm with my family, I'm with them in the moment. When I teaching a class, I'm in the moment! I always say this to my friends/students, "Life Is No Dress Rehearsal, What Are You Waiting For?" by JFM


Take "IT" Easy,
John McNabney

[Paco]

In the Tao of JKD, Bruce notes after "Mental Cultivation" 1) Krishnamurti, 2) Zen, 3) Taoism.
It's been ten years since I started looking into all of these, and I can definitely say my life is all the more richer for it.

[kiddbjj]

hey mike
thanks for the reply.

i agree with and understand what you are saying, so to further my question regarding jkd can you tell me to what extent these sorts of ideas/philosophies/extrapolations are actually covered in a typical jkd class.

is it something that is talked about either during training or afterwards? or is it just something that people come to for themselves? i mean technically you could use any sport as a medium for philosophy, gymnastics, football, rockclimbing etc, anything that confronts the player with challenge and the need to train hard and with intelligence, but these sports dont necessarily teach philosophy or include it as part of what you would learn in a training session.

when i did kung fu we used to set aside at least 10 minutes in each class to discuss the training and how this can be related to 'bigger picture' themes. it was cool. does a jkd school do this? is there even such a thing as a jkd school given that it is a 'process' rather than a 'product'.

[Tim McFatridge]

Great posts Mike...as always. I just wanted to jump in here and give my two cents worth. When I was training with my first JKD instructor he taught me the philosphical part if you want to call it that outside of class. He was always very careful with what he said when standing in front of his class. He knew that some people were there for the physical fitness part of it and trying to get in shape and nothing more than that. While others were there merely to obtain rank for self gratification reasons and still others were there for the self-defense aspect of it. He was always aware that some people would never "get" the philosophical aspect of the martial arts for whatever reasons. I was fortunate enough (through hard work and dedication) to be one of the lucky ones that he took under his wings to teach on a private level and personal level. This is were I learned by his example. I remember I use to go to his school everyday at lunch time and I would meet him up there to be his "demo" partner for who ever he was teaching privates to and afterwards we would go to lunch. I learned more from him just from having lunch and being able to talk to him on a one on one basis than I ever learned from him in the class room. This is where he taught me about real combat and the mental aspect of it. He taught me a lot about the different levels of combat and also taught me what to teach to your everyday student and what I should keep to myself until I have someone who is needing life and death training like the law enforcement or the military. One other thing that he made us do before we were able to get our instructorship under him was that we had to write an essay explaining to him what JKD means to us and how it has influenced our lives and our trainig. At the time I thought the essay was a pretty lame idea...now many many years later I look back and realize what he was doing and just how good of an idea it really was. He used that essay to make that we "got it."

Larry Hartsell is another example. When he is teaching stick and knife work or teaching some close quarter material he will show some pretty brutal stuff at times. At these times he will stop and take a minute to explain why the technique is so brutal and why it has to be that way. He will tell stories of combat...of being up against an opponent who wants you dead and why you have to do certain things. He has always told me "never mistake your opponents kindness for weakness," and I have never forgotten that. That one saying has saved me on more than one occassion simply by never under estimating my opponent.

[kiddbjj]

thanks for the great replies guys, i really appreciate hearing your experiences.

mike you made the point that jkd was more about 'experiences' than 'technique'. can you elaborate on this if possible? so where does technique fit into things.

despite spending time in kung fu for 5 years (which was mostly forms, good fitness, straight blast and some foot sweeps from a tech perspective), i'm basically a straight bjj guy now. and since i've gone back to uni as well as working casually to pay the mortgage i'm basically down to only 1-2 sessions per week. due to this i've really come to appreciate the wrestling part of the class (even though i like learning new techniques) simply because i get to constantly re-work, fine tune, and use the techs i have already learnt. i guess you could say that this 'experience' of testing the techs and how they can link is more important to me than 'collecting' new techniques. there's simply too many of them to digest in the limited time i have.

is this what you mean? once you've learnt a few techniques (say up to blue belt level of techs for bjj if your familiar with it) is it then best to really run with those rather than adding?

[kiddbjj]

thanks mate, that was a good explanation.

if i can pass judgement a little i'm assuming due to your experience that the 'self defence' aspect of training is important to you. it seems like you've spent quite some time working on street or police/military type scenarios in which the situations are serious and not just ego fights/match fights. so if i can ask, what conclusions have you come to regarding training for self defence? what would you consider to be essential learning for someone interested in this type of training?

[kiddbjj]

thanks mike. if you dont mind me asking where do you live where you feel the need to carry a gun and knife!! this seems totally amazing to me. is your home town really that bad and if it is, why not move??

i dont mean to sound rude but, wow, a gun and a knife. is this part of your occupation? or do you teach ma full time?

seriously though i truly appreciate the honesty and integrity of your responses. i can tell you think before you speak which is not always common on the forums!

by the way i found it quite enlightening that your primary concern was/is multiple opponents and weapons defence. even though i only do bjj (so i might sound hypocritical) but i have always wondered why people dont consider multiples and weapons the bulk of their training. any look through polive type stats on crime show that the majority of street 'incidents' either involve groups of people or weapons or both. it seems so logical to begin there and yet the majority of ma's consider it second fiddle, if they consider it at all. i've never been able to find a school that addresses it as their primary 'thing'. any recommendations on which styles do? i guess realistically th majority of real ancient warfare would have focused primarily on weapons and fighting in groups anyway, yet now it is almost non existent. after all who would go bare hands when you can pick up a weapon? even today soldiers learn to never leave their rifle. any thoughts based on your experiences?

[ryanwp941979]

I feel inadequate to comment in light of such great posts, but may I humbly suggest
The Sun-tzu, the Hagakure, the Book of 5 Rings, the Tao Te Ching and the Chuang-tzu, the poems of Li Po, and the Bhagavad Gita.
Also, Hyams's ZEN IN THE MARTIAL ARTS.

[SamuraiGuy]

In response to Mike's above post:

I've gone into that same topic a few times on this board, and many times in real life. I've done both RBSD and MMA (although not nearly enough of either IMO) and I moved from RBSD to MMA to a happy medium, probably leaning more towards the MMA.

I left the RBSD because I wanted to fight more, and while we did fight there, I knew there were much better fighters to be found.

So I went to the MMA place, where you learn how to fight one on one, not the self defense aspect, because I didnt really care anymore I wanted to do MMA because I enjoyed it.

People would find out I did this and think "Oh man I should take MMA so I dont lose any fights"... etc.... (I was still in HS when I started this).

I always told them.... You are going to get FAR more hurt doing MMA even if its for a short amount of time, than all the streetfights you will ever get into. I also told them they would spend alot more money than they are ever going to be robbed of.

I was between HS and a job to pay for university and had alot of time on my hands. I trained MMA/BJJ/Boxing up to 13 times in one week. I would go to the gym, sleep, go to the gym, sleep, go to the gym, etc....

I woke up feeling like SHIT (physically) everyday... so much pain from just the repeated beating my body took. Constantly being tired, getting home at 12 o clock at night after 3 hours of training, sleeping, waking up and going back to the gym. Would I do it again? I'd love to do it again, I doubt theres anything that would make me happier than having that opportunity again.

I dont know if this is JKD philosophy but its SG philosophy for sure, but whatever you do, do it because you want to do it. It's that simple, make going to the gym/wherever you train your first choice of thing to do if you could pick anything. Well... maybe second after your wife or gf....

[kiddbjj]

hey mike

thanks again, i'm just going to keep picking at your brain for as long as I can if thats cool.

so let me ask, if someone came to you and said they wanted to learn self defence and they actually meant it, say for their job or something, BUT they were living somewhere where carrying guns was illegal, what kind of program/curriculum would you guide them through?

[kiddbjj]

thanks mike

if i can i'd like to go back to a point you made in an earlier post regarding 'not liking yourself' when you were training for competitions. Could you elaborate on what you meant by that? it seems an interesting and odd thing to say.

also how would you train knees, elbows, headbutts, gouges etc safely when you are working them? are you using an body armour or is it pad work type drilling or something else?

thanks mate

[kiddbjj]

thanks mike

that really went above and beyond my question!