Looking for a very specific bruce lee title

[rickyray]

I beleive it was some sort of documentary that I watched about Bruce Lee. Bruce visited Taiwan or something. When he got there, there was a Thai fighter that for some reason or another wanted to fight bruce. I'm almost certain Bruce declined the fight.

Then, Bruce attended one of the Thai fighters matches and watched the Thai fighter in action. (I think Bruce was studying the Thai fighters moves). Anyhow, Bruce eventually ended up fighting the Thai fighter and he kicked the Thai fighters ass. I think the Thai fighter has two brothers as well, not sure what happened next, but I'd really like to know if anyone out there happens to know what movie this was or what documentary title name.

Much apreciated,

RickyRay,

[Watchdog]

Your description sounds like a scene from "Bruce Lee: The Man, The Myth" which was a biographical movie that starred Bruce Li. You can get it at Target for about 2 bucks now on DVD.

[rickyray]

Yes, I happen to have the title in my collection. I'll watch it to verify if it was real documentary or just a movie.

[rickyray]

Yes, you were right, it was the movie I was talking about. Funny, i remember the program to be much clearer and not so much of an old old movie. LOL, thanks for helping.

[JKDan]

Bruce Lee: Man Between The Real and The Myth:

I am a die hard Bruce Lee fan. To my knowledge, there is no film of him in actual competition or combat, that I've run accross. To be sure, there are rumours. Perhaps, like his once thought "Lost Interview," (hence, it's name) and "lost footage" of the film project he was known to have last been working on, "Game of Death," both rumoured for years to have once existed and then actaully turning up, perhaps someday, one will be found.

Until then, my research into this amazing individual has lead me see his obvious inner struggle between his commercial, Hollywood, won't someone please notice me, on the one side. But also his just as obvious quest for the absolute ultimate in physical and spiritual martial perfection - HIS FIRST LOVE (hence his refusal to compete, due to what it forces you to give up in training - true combat efficiency training - the eye gouges, hits to the groin, the ALL OUT WAR he was said to engage in during sparring with oppenents having to be covered front head to foot, or the metal dummies and so forth he left dented, broken, torn, etc., due to his astounding speed, power, and so on). As well as his intense research into the inner harmony of martial arts philosophy.

He was obviously a complex, a fascinating individual. A mere man, but one who was so fanatic about training both his mind and his body, he turned a completely muscle-less physique into an sculpture of perfection, both the world of Body-Building and Combative sports have for years acknowleged.

Yes, some of this above may offend some, the ignoramus, who dispite their own admiration for someone else, they hold even higher then I have here Lee (for I at least see Lee's weaknesses as well his strengths, hence my admiration).These types are bound to have their one-sided say in the matter. So be it. Who cares. I don't pay their rent. They don't pay mine. Other than wisdom in avoiding their pathetic one-sided arrogance, they contribute nothing to my own journey. So,that other than this paragragh, none of this was written to or for them anyway.

"If you're talking about combat, I mean, AS IT REALLY IS – with NO rules - well then, baby you'd better train EVERY part of your body!" -- Bruce Lee: The Lost Interview)

[fenwick99]

Bruce fought a thai boxer when he was in Thailand scouting locations. It was a draw. There is 8mm film out there of Bruce sparring Jim Kelly and Bob Wall, and of young Bruce fighting on the rooftops in HK. Write to John Little, maybe he can tell you how to get it.
Bruce was not a pro fighter, and there were guys who could beat him, then and today. Having said that, he was a bad mofo.
Bruce did destroy Wong Jack, contrary to popular mythology.
I tend to believe the opinion of Lewis, that Lee did have hands that were "top 10" in his class, his long neck meant a "glass jaw" and he could not have withstood the ring. In a street fight, though, Helio Gracie was the only small man who could have beaten him. Today, Bruce would get KOed by a guy like BJ Penn or Sean Sherk.

[JKDan]

Originally Posted by fenwick99

Bruce fought a thai boxer when he was in Thailand scouting locations. It was a draw. There is 8mm film out there of Bruce sparring Jim Kelly and Bob Wall, and of young Bruce fighting on the rooftops in HK. Write to John Little, maybe he can tell you how to get it.
Bruce was not a pro fighter, and there were guys who could beat him, then and today. Having said that, he was a bad mofo.
Bruce did destroy Wong Jack, contrary to popular mythology.
I tend to believe the opinion of Lewis, that Lee did have hands that were "top 10" in his class, his long neck meant a "glass jaw" and he could not have withstood the ring. In a street fight, though, Helio Gracie was the only small man who could have beaten him. Today, Bruce would get KOed by a guy like BJ Penn or Sean Sherk.

I've heard/read of his teenage street fighting days, one or two Japanese Karateka in Seattle he wiped the floor with, the San Francisco Jack Man encounter, the "Big Boss" Thai Boxer fight, the challenges by extras on the "Enter the Dragon" set, and have seen the rooftop fight tape, as well as others I've not mentioned here, along with Joe Lewis' low opnion of Lee as a fighter, as compared to himself, and so on..

I've studied the rooftop fight and concluded it's not Bruce. Later, I ran across a Hawkins Cheung piece, (one of Bruce's closest lifelong friends from childhood, Wing Chun classmates, and now highly respected Wing Chun instructor). Cheung has said it's not Bruce, either! My own conclusion was based on the fact that neither person in the rooftop film footage moves like Lee. When compared to his movement in his earlier Hong Kong film roles, Lee, the child film actor moves exactly as the Lee of later "Kato" and "Enter the Dragon" fame. NONE of the guys on the rooftops, not even the ones standing around, move like him. Sort of like children who walk/move like their dad. Like Brandon (R.I.P) did. There he was in "Rapid Fire," his dad's movement expressing itself through him (but without the rage, passion, and so forth he'd not yet tapped into...). Like watching Kato again...

What I see at this time on Lee's possible success, in his prime, in today's environment, the Lee of the 1960's, the Lee who was not only out to be the baddest dud around, but who ran with all kinds of badasses, shocking the helll out of all of them, the next time they saw him - doing what they'd previously thought they'd wowed him with - doing it better then they! The Lee of the 60's who ran with the bad asses of then.

This would be the Lee sometime after the Wong Jack Man encounter - his Jeet Kune Do mastery at it's astounding level, but before he began to shut down. I personally believe, out of his own insecurity at possibly tarnishing the image he was trying to build (by losing in a competition). But also, out of his profound commitment to all out war in battle, something competition messes with in training.

In other words, "to me, to me, okay" everything points to a Lee who truly was one deadly individual, but who, along with the above, steadily grew fearful of being proven otherwise! He somewhere along the way he would simply forget, at times, what a bad mofo he really was! Of course, - put someone who's trained that darned hard, that scientifically, that damned ingeniously in a batlle and those insecurities turn out to be a myth! I go through something like this in one of my daily tasks in my own business - over the phone I could charm the "Devil himself" into studying the Bible! I mean, I'm really a site to see and hear on that phone - when I get out of my own way and just do it! I constantly forget my mastery! And as I look at Lee, I pick up the same vibe. In "The Lost Interview," one example of many, one minute he is lighting fast in his punching (that's 3 punches, not 2, freeze frame it, then rewind it frame by frame, you'll catch the streak of his 2nd punch on it's way back!) The next minute he's worried about impressing someone who really does not matter on where what's he's worried about is concerned, with his having taught Siliphant - hey the guy (Lee) was human! There it is... it's beautiful - he's human - he's one of us! Look at what we can accomplish inspite of our self-deceiving insecurities - not you can if you think you can, but, if you'll pursue it inspite of perhaps believing you may not succeed!

Bruce, thankyou - "Your inspiration continues to guide us toward our personal liberation."

We may never see just what a bad mofo this dude was! We may never see actual, staight out, there he is, wow, footage of Lee in combat. Almost like Leonardo DaVinci; who's helicopters and submarines actually work, but never saw the light of day in his time....

I'll end with this. Kareem Abdul Jabbar, an awesome athelete in his day, a guy who knew the real deal as far as grace, timing, speed, tempo, and so forth, not only to this day remains in awe of Lee's abilities, but tells in his autobiography, of an encounter he witnessed between a starightout, thug, street fighter friend of his and Lee. How that, at first the guy, who was out for blood, and knew how to handle himself, held his own. When all of a sudden Lee went deadly cold, turned into a raging yet astoundingly graceful animal and tore the guy up! Jabbar has always been known for his integrity. So, I'll buy that. One of the producers of "Enter the Dragon," (I forget his name, the one mild one in interviews - with the glasses) a Spielburg of his day, in terms of his reputaion for integrity, tells of having seen Lee tear a challenger up with blinding speed. He's around Kelly and some of the other guys back then who were stuntmen and martial artists and he recalls Lee's blinding speed. I'll buy that. Some 20 or MMA fighters, among them Shamrock, Ortiz, and Fedor have cited their amazement with Lee. As has Sugar Ray Leonard and Hector Camacho all of them expert in detecting a fighter's strengths and weaknesses, timing, speed, power, and so forth from their movement alone!

"If you're talking about combat, I mean, as it REALLYis – with NO rules -- well then, baby you'd better train EVERY part of your body!" -- Bruce Lee: The Lost Interview)

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by JKDan

"If you're talking about combat, I mean, as it REALLYis – with NO rules -- well then, baby you'd better train EVERY part of your body!" -- Bruce Lee: The Lost Interview)

......even c**k qi-gong?

[JKDan]

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

......even c**k qi-gong?

"Don't think, FEEL (flow)!" What the heck is or does the C**K part mean? Other than that "Bruce left energy training in all his outlines for Class Plans..." Jerry Poteet, highly respected 1st Genreation Bruce Lee student. And Dan Inosanto once told me that "Although Bruce was not very open about it, he would do various types of drills to develop not only his ability to tap into adrenalin flow at will, but some 12 other types of energies, he'd found in his quest for the ultimate. Even after he was back in Hong Kong, after he was famous, he told me he was still doing his various energy drills."

Not sure the motivation behind your question. One thing is for sure, the man was obsessed with mastering anything which would enhance his martial prowess. Anyone who thinks a person like that would've had a shallow view of qi-gong's possibilities after having experienced it, just hasn't done his research on the man. The first form of Wing Chun is a qi-gong drill. A form Lee was said to have religiously practiced a good 8 years or so (age 14 to about 24). Hence, his power at such an early age. And I was once doing this first form of the Wing Chun style in a friend's freezing basment when I began to steam - the thing is done in slow motion! Lee seems to have claimed having abandoned forms, but it's obvious he did not abandon one of their purposes! Flow of energy. The man had beautiful, absolutley complex and beautiful forms in his arsenal, for example! Chi from forms or any other type of traditional practice is only one means to it. Baskeball's zone, so beautifully at times demonstrated by Micahel Jordan, way back when, is an example. Heck, when even this writing flows, chi is the reason, the result! Hunger ceases, creativity flows, a sense of time is no longer, a power ebbs and flows, one is not cold, nor hot, as "un-natural naturalness or natural un-naturalness" takes over...

Anyway, your turn - "Don't think, FEEL (flow)!"

[Tom Yum]

It was a joke, JKDan.

[JKDan]

Originally Posted by Tom Yum

It was a joke, JKDan.

Well, then, the joke's on me! Should've known it was, from your "I can do all things through Christ..." sign-off. Must be what the JK in JKDan stands for! Keep flowin, keep blastin, JKD....

[Tom Yum]

Nice. Welcome here!

[fenwick99]

In the book GIANT STEPS, Kareem described a sparring match between Bruce and a streetfighter/martial artist friend of Kareem's named Malik Abdul-Mansour. Bob Wall also relayed the story of how Bruce pummeled an extra on the set of ETD, and guy much bigger and stronger than BL. I have no doubt he was an awesome streetfigher, but was he the best? Streetfights are so incredibly unpreditable that I don't think you can determine who the best is. Many years ago, after some bar altercation, a champion lightwt. boxer tried to KO a petite lady cop.
The officer ducked the punch and brained him with her billy club. He woke up in handcuffs.
Having said that, I believe fully that Bruce extracted a submission from WJM in less than five minutes. Regardless of what wikipedia says.

[JKDan]

Originally Posted by fenwick99

In the book GIANT STEPS, Kareem described a sparring match between Bruce and a streetfighter/martial artist friend of Kareem's named Malik Abdul-Mansour. Bob Wall also relayed the story of how Bruce pummeled an extra on the set of ETD, and guy much bigger and stronger than BL. I have no doubt he was an awesome streetfigher, but was he the best? Streetfights are so incredibly unpreditable that I don't think you can determine who the best is. Many years ago, after some bar altercation, a champion lightwt. boxer tried to KO a petite lady cop.
The officer ducked the punch and brained him with her billy club. He woke up in handcuffs.
Having said that, I believe fully that Bruce extracted a submission from WJM in less than five minutes. Regardless of what wikipedia says.

Thanks for the guys name in Jabbar's book. It's been awhile, and I'd forgotten it. I was going from memory. As for the "champion lightwt. boxer" comparison, while I'd agree with your "Streetfights are so incredibly unpreditable," I'd respectfully disagree with your "champion lightwt. boxer" boxer comparison. Lee was not only survived some rather vicious streetfights - one in which, according to his teen-"hood," friend, Wing Chun's William Cheung, as Lee was taking off his coat, the guy jumped Lee, giving him a black eye. Lee went absolutely insane , broke both the guy's arms and was had to be tstopped from throwing the guy off the rooftop we were fighting on." Recollections like that and the fact that Lee was obsseesed with all pahses of martial combat, had astounding strength for his small size, and so forth, do not favor a boxer comparison.

Not to belabor it (yeah, right), but I have a nephew who was a streetfighter and boxer. He once led a small army of about 300 gang-bangers. Guys he regularly had to physically prove himself to. One night, I came upon a streetfight abut half a block up the street from me, between my nephew and 3 guys from another rival gang. One of them hit him with a beer bottle. He wasn't even phased by it, immediately decking the guy, turning and ramming a second guy into a fence and so forth. About 1 minute into it, it was all over.

My point, those are the kind of guys which would make for interseting, no holds fights with a Bruce Lee - guys who, unlike UFC and so forth, are unable to let you go when you tap out, unable to hug you afterwards. And those are the kinds of guys Lee supposedly tore into in msot recllections of him.

Here's a trouble starter - ever see that 30 second clip of Ernmin Boeztepe supposedly wiping the floor with Lee's teen-hood pal, William Cheung, despite Cheung's supposed street prowess as a teen? It's evident Cheung hadn't a clue about ground work. Lee, on the other hand, would've destroyed Boeztepe.... anyway, gotta run - Keep flowin, keep blastin, JKD.

[fenwick99]

that Bruce was probably a better street fighter than that boxer who got clobbered by the cop. I am just fatigued by all of this endless debating about what Bruce could and couldn't do, did or didn't do, said or didn't say, etc.
Tang Soo Do people don't obssess on every detail of Hwang Kee's biography as a prerequisite to improving their art. Judoka do not have to master every nuance of Dr. Kano's sayings in order to improve on their art. Aikidoists probably do spend a great deal of time analyzing the sayings of Uyeshiba,
but it all relates back to the ultimate performance of the art.
My main concern, with jkd, jun fan, and the rest of it, is that the debate on every aspect of Bruce Lee's art, life, thought process, biography, history, and philosophical outlook is, ad nauseum, repeated endlessly until there is no room to move in any direction. It is as though Bruce Lee has become the Hegelian absolute. I would hate to see the art itself die because of the hero-worship of Bruce and the compulsive rehashing of everything ever said by or about Bruce.