The Ultimate in Martial Arts

Mixed Martial Arts, Thaiboxing, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Combat Submission Wrestling, Jeet Kune Do, Women's Self-Defense, Boxing and Filipino Martial Arts


Go Back   Deluxe Martial Arts Forums > Martial Arts > Jeet Kune Do Discussion Forum

Jeet Kune Do Discussion Forum Gain insight into Bruce Lee's concepts and philosophies of the martial arts.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-11-2007, 08:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 33
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
obsessed is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Weight vs. power

I hear so many people talking about "kicking someone elses's ass" in college, and they tend to all want to prove something ... badass complex.

They all bench and weightlift like gods but when it comes to actually fighting they don't seem to cut it

My question deals with bruce lee. Many people seem to think that size = strength, but look at him. He was what, 5'6 and he could hit harder than anyone. Why do people naturally assume that being small means that you can't hit hard?
obsessed is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 02-11-2007, 09:12 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Tom Yum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Here and there.
Posts: 11,573
Groans: 1
Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts
Tom Yum has much to be proud ofTom Yum has much to be proud ofTom Yum has much to be proud ofTom Yum has much to be proud ofTom Yum has much to be proud ofTom Yum has much to be proud ofTom Yum has much to be proud ofTom Yum has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessed View Post
I hear so many people talking about "kicking someone elses's ass" in college, and they tend to all want to prove something ... badass complex.
I guess it depends on which college you go to, but yeah I follow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessed View Post
They all bench and weightlift like gods but when it comes to actually fighting they don't seem to cut it. My question deals with bruce lee. Many people seem to think that size = strength, but look at him. He was what, 5'6 and he could hit harder than anyone. Why do people naturally assume that being small means that you can't hit hard?
Without training, size has a whole lot to do with the ability to hit hard.

With training, it still does to a noticeable extent, but smaller guys can generate KO power. I've seen welterweight boxers lay out big, bad dudes on speed and technique - so I see what you mean!

There are alot of fighters between 160 and 200 lbs who are fireballs of explosive power. There are yet smaller guys, 140-150 lb ers who can hit hard too.

Bruce Lee was simply obsessive about his MA training, especially conditioning - which is why he could hit so damn hard.

Last edited by Tom Yum; 02-11-2007 at 09:14 PM.
Tom Yum is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 02-11-2007, 09:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,966
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
DickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the roughDickHardman is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessed View Post
Why do people naturally assume that being small means that you can't hit hard?
why do you care? unless you too wished that people thought you were tough.
DickHardman is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 02-11-2007, 11:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 33
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
obsessed is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Just curious. People talk alot about it. I'm not small, but I'm not ginormous either.
obsessed is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 02-11-2007, 11:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 33
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
obsessed is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

I guess I mean that people live their lives thinking they are such a bad ass, many of which have never entered a fight. Until they get their ass kicked by someone smaller and skilled (notice how I said skilled rather than more skilled, which referrs to the jock type of kid in high-school/college) they believe they're the shit.
obsessed is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 02-12-2007, 05:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
Premiere Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,413
Groans: 1
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thai Bri is a jewel in the roughThai Bri is a jewel in the roughThai Bri is a jewel in the rough
Default

Bruce tried to become bigger. I wonder why...............
Thai Bri is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 02-12-2007, 10:27 AM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
HERQ454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 138
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
HERQ454 will become famous soon enough
Default

Then he went smaller.
HERQ454 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 02-12-2007, 10:44 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 142
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
elliotNess is on a distinguished road
Default

It depends of the difference in size. 20 or 30 pounds may not matter but when you get into a size difference of over 40 or 50 pounds then being on the receiving end of those larger punches or kicks may have a suprising affect. Remember Bruce Lee was an actor who lived in a different day and age. Martial arts and fighters have evolved since the days of Bruce Lee.
elliotNess is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 02-12-2007, 11:19 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 136
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
John McNabney is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessed View Post
I guess I mean that people live their lives thinking they are such a bad ass, many of which have never entered a fight. Until they get their ass kicked by someone smaller and skilled (notice how I said skilled rather than more skilled, which referrs to the jock type of kid in high-school/college) they believe they're the shit.

Well I think it falls in the line of "We are always right, until we are wrong and find out" kind of thing. If a person uses structure and are relaxed, anyone can gererate massive power for a moment.
__________________
"Walk On The Path, Not On Each Other" by John McNabney
John McNabney is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 02-12-2007, 01:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
Humble Moderator
 
Tant01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Northern Ca. USA
Posts: 5,935
Groans: 0
Groaned at 15 Times in 10 Posts
Tant01 has much to be proud ofTant01 has much to be proud ofTant01 has much to be proud ofTant01 has much to be proud ofTant01 has much to be proud ofTant01 has much to be proud ofTant01 has much to be proud ofTant01 has much to be proud of
Default

I have seen countless Ko's Been KOd and KOd a few guys myself.

In my own observations over the years it seems that size and strength have less to do with results than a bad attitude and GOOD TIMING.

When you develope the confidence in your ability to KNOW WHEN to throw that punch. The rest is easy.

Seriously. Power is crap, timing is everything...
__________________

"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."


James Paterson
Tant01 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 02-12-2007, 01:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 83
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
WuChi is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up

Its all about hitting in the right place. If you hitthe jaw while the mouth is open, it will more than likely break. If it is closed it will be harder. If you can see a strike coming you have a time to prepare, if it hits you without warning then its a different matter. Concussive(bouncing the brain inside the skull), requires acceleration of the skull. IOf we look at a heavy person, they can produce more inertia(resistance to change) because of a heavier hand. I personally believe that the middle weight fighter are most powerfull, because the have a mix of speed and ability to throw there entire body weight, rather than just there arm. Chuck liddel and Mike tyson, are exeptions rather than the rule. As power is VelocityXspeed, speed and weight are equal, so once you begin throwing your entire body weight, you need to work faster. As it is easier to get faster than heavier, also the correct use of knuckles or contacting points has to be considered. Throw your weight so that it focuses on your knuckles, producing more FORCE(area of contact). Remeber this is a tricky subject, as an arrow traveling does not have much weight, but it concentrates the speed and mass on a tiny point, thus producing large Force.
Once you get fimiliar you become more confident, and any real KO striker will tell you that, you begin to look more at fast accurate striking(ones your opponent cannot see) rather than all-out, as the hardest strike on a tensed chin, is not as effective as a quarter of the contact on a open and unsuspecting mouth.
__________________
There are always braggarts who think themselves clever. They say of other boxing that at one glance they know it. They dont realise that while at one glance they knew it, if they look again they wont know it.
WuChi is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 02-12-2007, 01:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Tom Yum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Here and there.
Posts: 11,573
Groans: 1
Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts
Tom Yum has much to be proud ofTom Yum has much to be proud ofTom Yum has much to be proud ofTom Yum has much to be proud ofTom Yum has much to be proud ofTom Yum has much to be proud ofTom Yum has much to be proud ofTom Yum has much to be proud of
Default

Momentm favors the heavier fighter. Momentum = mass x velocity

If the heavier fighter hits the lighter one, the lighter one is going to go get jarred or knocked back farther than the larger one. Think about Ernesto Hoost vs. Bob Sapp...Sapp sent Hoost into the corner and kept him there. Both guys are pretty big, Hoost is 240 and Sapp is like 360-ish, but Sapp sent him flying back each time.

Power favors the more explosive or faster striker. Power is the rate of energy transfer (damage) and has less to do with size. Think Kokalai vs. Mo. Kokalai's first kick sent Mo to the canvas. Kokalai is 170-lb dripping wet.

But fighting, as tant put it has more to do with alot more things than power.

Last edited by Tom Yum; 02-13-2007 at 04:13 PM.
Tom Yum is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 02-12-2007, 08:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
Premiere Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,413
Groans: 1
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thai Bri is a jewel in the roughThai Bri is a jewel in the roughThai Bri is a jewel in the rough
Default

Right.

Who here would be any worse if they were given 30 lbs of functional muscle?

Coz I for one would be a lot better!
Thai Bri is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 02-13-2007, 07:18 AM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 89
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Juicefree is on a distinguished road
Default

Two things ;

No. 1 The point about Timing is 101 % correct. As a serious Martials Artist this represents skill and technique, what we are all trying to improve. I would suggest beyond everything else this should be where you should focus your improvement, with regards to alife long study of martials arts.

No. 2 Simple physics. Big guys will hit harder and more importantly hit smaller guys harder. Try throwing a basket ball at a basket ball, watch how they move, then throw a tennis ball at a basket ball, and then a basket ball at a tennis ball !! It's not just about the person hitting but also the person being hit.

On a final note, Bruce Lee developed expert timing (as Carl Douglas would say) this accounted for a large part of his success ... the Way of the 'Intercepting' Fist.
Juicefree is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 02-13-2007, 08:14 AM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 83
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
WuChi is on a distinguished road
Default Movement is not damage!!

You have to remeber that without proper Acceleration, a heavy hitt is just a push, and a push doesnot casue largwe Compression or force. If something big hitts something small it moves, and when it moves it cancels out some of the impact. If you walk in or stand your ground, the impact will be greater. I would rather get hit by a slower fist that causes me to move, than a fast one that bursts my face open because I have no time to cancel out the blow. If you are hit by a straight punch, your movement should be backward, etc, that is why if you train on the heavy bag properly, the aim is not to move it, the aim is to hit is hard and Accelerate it. In the same way a dart peirces through a object, your fist should do also. If something moves, some of the farce has been canceld out, granted however is the fact that most fight injuries happen when someone is knocked over a hitts the ground with their head. And as someone said earlier about the BASKET, BASEBALL etc, would they be damaged though, from the contact its self?, or would it just be moved. If you his the basketball with a projectile the same suface as a tennisball, moving fast it would destroy it(like a rubber bullet), Speed and weight are equal when producing inertia and power. The smaller man however may have more problems will keeping a straight line, and not breaking the structure of his body.
__________________
There are always braggarts who think themselves clever. They say of other boxing that at one glance they know it. They dont realise that while at one glance they knew it, if they look again they wont know it.
WuChi is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
where is my chi power? lockjaw211 Sensei Saki 44 02-06-2007 11:08 PM
Losing Weight without weight lifting? BigDave Fitness, Nutrition and Training Forum 2 08-14-2005 09:35 PM
Body Weight VS. Barbell/dumbell weight Enzo566 Fitness, Nutrition and Training Forum 21 03-29-2005 04:47 AM
Using the Power of Chi BulletProofMonk Chinese Martial Arts 7 04-03-2004 10:40 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.1
Template-Modifications by TMS
© Copyright 1996-2008, Mousel's Self-Defense Academy




1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187