JKD Phillosophy and art

[kanik]

Yeah maybe im just confused here... but that doesnt stop me wondering my new question... why does the phillosophy and the art of JKD have to be combined? isnt it that if we go by what bruce teaches than we wil improve, not necasserily having to go by his "art"?

[eXcessiveForce]

well it would depend on the tools you have available too you.


If you have never experienced a system with pak and lop, or interceptions then you may not develop in a way that is beneficial.

[Troll Virus]

Originally Posted by kanik

Yeah maybe im just confused here... but that doesnt stop me wondering my new question... why does the phillosophy and the art of JKD have to be combined? isnt it that if we go by what bruce teaches than we wil improve, not necasserily having to go by his "art"?

There are people far more eloquent and economic of expression than me here, but if it helps;

There are a few different groups orbiting JKD!

The Jun Fan JKD people seek to emulate everything Bruce had and use that as a foundation to evolve from.

The JKD 'concepts' groups are more along the lines of using 'no way as way', which makes them either more free or more limited depending on the individuals.

Philosophy and art always have to be combined.
One cannot exist without the other.

While Bruce was arguably 30 years ahead of his time, there are plenty other people taking on his work and making better information more readily available.

Out of Dan Inosanto's circle, you have people like Marc Denny of DBMA, who expresses very deep philosophy and high levels of art.

[Little Apple]

Kanik, of course you'll improve, it's a great phillosophy. There's absolutly nothing stopping you from liking BL's phillosophies and applying them to other arts, your banking, or tieing your shoes. But your first question was:

"Hey im wondering would somone be considered following jeet kune do if they followed the principles but never trained in the art?"

No one ever said it was useless to only use the phillosophies, or even discouraged you from lerning and applying them. All they said was that it wasn't JKD all by itself. Nothing wrong with that.

Omlets are cool, but sometimes you just want scrambled eggs. Eggs by themselves aren't really and omlet, but that doesn't mean they're bad. Same type of thing.

[fenwick99]

I don't know if there is really a difference between philosophy and art here.
Bruce tried to physically express Taoism, Zen, Krishnamurti, etc. through a fighting system of absolute effiency with no wasted movement or energy.
Every block (tan, bong, angle deflection) is an attack, as it disrupts the opponent's balance. Every attack is for defense as well as offense, because it prevents the opponent from getting set and timing an attack. This is based on taoism, tai chi, and wing chun, but is also present inm various writings such as Musashi, Hagakure, sun Tzu, etc.
I also question the division between concepts and jfjkd. Guro Inosanto teach Bruce's art AS BRUCE TAUGHT IT in his jeet kuen class, True, he is interested in many other things. Both Bruce and Ed Parker encouraged Mr. Inosanto to
study FMA. You can do what bruce did and other things.
The discussion of what is and is not jkd is academic

[Tim McFatridge]

fenwick....all I can say is I agree...

good post guys......all of you.

[tel]

i agree with fenwick too. have study under poteet and inosanto lines and would say there is no differance in the jfjkd.

[kanik]

Hey thanks all you have helped a great deal, i uderstand what your all saying finally, and i think your understanding what i am saying to, so thanks again.

[Killing Sword]

Well, I'll be the one to disagree. Jeet Kune Do is, and was always intended to be a concept rather than a style. Jeet kune do was Bruce Lee's personal expression of himself through combat, it was not the style that he fought with.
Of course you will all know that Jeet kune do translates into 'way of the intercepting fist or foot' and this concept was taken from the fencing concept of the stop-hit whereby you intercept an opponent's attack with an attack of your own. This was just one concept that Jeet kune do was named after and developed with and reportedly Bruce regretted having given it this name or any other as he feared that it having a name would imply a set structure and routine and it clearly has because people now argue about other people not practicing Jeet kune do because they do not know 'the Jeet kune do foundation techniques'. I say that there should be no such thing.
Now while I agree that without a guide on the journey to finding your own personal truth/way, you will have a very difficult time developing your skill set to sufficiently high a level, I disagree that your not studying Jeet kune do if you have only ever read the decent literature etc. If you really study the material and think about its meaning and make it true for you then you are at least practicing your own interpretation of Jeet kune do, which is what it was always intended to be.
The problem you have to be aware of in this case is that without an experienced Jeet kune do practitioner you are at a greater risk of misinterpreting the information/message and that, in my opinion, is where you will really cease to be practicing the Jeet kune do that Bruce Lee developed.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Originally Posted by Killing Sword

Well, I'll be the one to disagree. Jeet Kune Do is, and was always intended to be a concept rather than a style. Jeet kune do was Bruce Lee's personal expression of himself through combat, it was not the style that he fought with.
Of course you will all know that Jeet kune do translates into 'way of the intercepting fist or foot' and this concept was taken from the fencing concept of the stop-hit whereby you intercept an opponent's attack with an attack of your own. This was just one concept that Jeet kune do was named after and developed with and reportedly Bruce regretted having given it this name or any other as he feared that it having a name would imply a set structure and routine and it clearly has because people now argue about other people not practicing Jeet kune do because they do not know 'the Jeet kune do foundation techniques'. I say that there should be no such thing.
Now while I agree that without a guide on the journey to finding your own personal truth/way, you will have a very difficult time developing your skill set to sufficiently high a level, I disagree that your not studying Jeet kune do if you have only ever read the decent literature etc. If you really study the material and think about its meaning and make it true for you then you are at least practicing your own interpretation of Jeet kune do, which is what it was always intended to be.
The problem you have to be aware of in this case is that without an experienced Jeet kune do practitioner you are at a greater risk of misinterpreting the information/message and that, in my opinion, is where you will really cease to be practicing the Jeet kune do that Bruce Lee developed.

Bravo for that first post! this is what i was trying to say, you did it better

[Killing Sword]

Right, seems nobody cares to discuss the matter any further. Shame that

[Troll Virus]

Originally Posted by Killing Sword

Right, seems nobody cares to discuss the matter any further. Shame that

What is it that you wish to discuss?

[Killing Sword]

The same thing that has been discussed thus far, obviously. Unfortunately, I arrived late to said discussion and it ended abruptly as soon as I laid down my comment. I was keen to read what other people might have to say in response to my post.

[Troll Virus]

OK then.

Originally Posted by Killing Sword

Of course you will all know that Jeet kune do translates into 'way of the intercepting fist or foot'

Kune or Kuen depending on the romanization means fist or hand, but not foot.

Bruce regretted having given it this name or any other as he feared that it having a name would imply a set structure and routine and it clearly has because people now argue about other people not practicing Jeet kune do because they do not know 'the Jeet kune do foundation techniques'. I say that there should be no such thing.

Something you might want to look into, is the Lee estate (Linda etc) deciding who can and can't use the name Jeet Kune Do for their teachings.

Now while I agree that without a guide on the journey to finding your own personal truth/way, you will have a very difficult time developing your skill set to sufficiently high a level, I disagree that your not studying Jeet kune do if you have only ever read the decent literature etc. If you really study the material and think about its meaning and make it true for you then you are at least practicing your own interpretation of Jeet kune do, which is what it was always intended to be.

Book Fu?

The problem you have to be aware of in this case is that without an experienced Jeet kune do practitioner you are at a greater risk of misinterpreting the information/message and that, in my opinion, is where you will really cease to be practicing the Jeet kune do that Bruce Lee developed.

It's also conceivable that with an "experienced Jeet kune do practitioner you are at a greater risk of misinterpreting the information/message".

[Killing Sword]

Originally Posted by Troll Virus

Kune or Kuen depending on the romanization means fist or hand, but not foot.

Slightly pedantic I think as the point I was intending to make survives the slight error in translation, however I'll concede and just say ok.

Originally Posted by Troll Virus

Something you might want to look into, is the Lee estate (Linda etc) deciding who can and can't use the name Jeet Kune Do for their teachings.

I think this is irrelevant. I mean no offense to Bruce Lee's friends and family when i say that I don't think their opinions really make any difference. The fact is that there is huge confusion today as to what JKD is,what Bruce would be doing with it, who can or can't teach it etc. I get the impression that the name is a big part of the problem and Bruce new that.

Originally Posted by Troll Virus

Book Fu?

I'm not saying that learning from books alone is a good way of learning, of course it isn't. But I definitely don't believe that its worthless. Bruce lee learned a lot from reading relevant books.

Originally Posted by Troll Virus

It's also conceivable that with an "experienced Jeet kune do practitioner you are at a greater risk of misinterpreting the information/message".

Couldn't agree more.