Rudy Franco Poll

[Mike Brewer]

This is not meant to be an insult party. It is meant to prove a point about the effectiveness of one strategy over another. Please, just vote and keep it clean.

[eXcessiveForce]

Sorry Mike I added an option.

[Mike Brewer]

You're allowed, XF. No worries. The whole point of the poll stems from PM discussion i've been having with Rudy about his choice of tactics. I have been maintaining that he's driven more people toward Tim by not explaining himself than he's driving away from him.

So far, looks like I'm right.

[Mike Brewer]

By the way....

Looks like tha calculator isn't working. We're showing something like 200% voting.

[Monkey Paw]

I tried to "quickly" read through all of that thread. Isn't the big question here whether Mr. Tackett used racial slurs or not? If he did (or Rudy thinks he did) couldnt that explain in part the angry thread and the lack of clear communication on Rudy's part.

Im not a JKD guy and have no idea what kind of man Mr. Tackett or Rudy are. Never heard of Rudy before and Mr. Tackett's name is only vaguely familiar. I just think that if he did say those things then that should be the bigger issue. If I gotta chose between associating myself with either a jerk or a racist jerk Id go with the former. Does anyone know Mr. Tackett? Because what seems weird is that I did not read anyone really saying that they can't believe that he would actually say what Rudy is accusing him of (But like I said I only skimmed through the thread).

[Mike Brewer]

Monkey Paw,
So are you saying Tim Tackett is a racist because Rudy Franco says he is? It doesn't prove a thing, except that Rudy doesn't like Tim. He didn't give examples, and he didn't cite any people Tim was being disrespectful to. If the comments in question were jokes that Rudy didn't find funny, or that he took to be racist, isn't that a decidedly different thing that if Tim Tackett aimed a racial slur at Rudy himself?

Since you brought up which types of jerks are preferable, which is better, a jerk who tells racist jokes or a jerk who's so sensitive and PC that he'll slander you in every public forum he can find if you say something he doesn't like?

My point is, he hasn't done anything but point and accuse. No examples, no specifics. He hasn't explained the meat of the issue at all, and he's taken it very personally when confronted. He's almost been what one might call defensive about answering questions. That, for many, casts doubt on the veracity of any claim. After all, if someone has a legitimate issue, he is generally not going to be terribly hesitant to give details - especially when he's the one who brought the issue to the public in the first place.

[ncgf]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Monkey Paw,
So are you saying Tim Tackett is a racist because Rudy Franco says he is? It doesn't prove a thing, except that Rudy doesn't like Tim. He didn't give examples, and he didn't cite any people Tim was being disrespectful to. If the comments in question were jokes that Rudy didn't find funny, or that he took to be racist, isn't that a decidedly different thing that if Tim Tackett aimed a racial slur at Rudy himself?

Since you brought up which types of jerks are preferable, which is better, a jerk who tells racist jokes or a jerk who's so sensitive and PC that he'll slander you in every public forum he can find if you say something he doesn't like?

My point is, he hasn't done anything but point and accuse. No examples, no specifics. He hasn't explained the meat of the issue at all, and he's taken it very personally when confronted. He's almost been what one might call defensive about answering questions. That, for many, casts doubt on the veracity of any claim. After all, if someone has a legitimate issue, he is generally not going to be terribly hesitant to give details - especially when he's the one who brought the issue to the public in the first place.

He is a coward. He has been on this forum as late as this morning and chooses not to address what has put to him. He will say things publically without backing anything up with examles and proof, and he will be bold in PMs (even denigrating those who truly do know about the military), when he himself has done and continues to do nothing but talk.

I am so tired of wannabees criticizing those who have served and then saying they dont know anything about "real combat" when it is obvious from his picture that he doesnt know how to do anything but eat. All these pretend warriors who dont know what "real combat" but for what others have told them. Go serve your country before you criticize those who have.

[Ghost]

cant he be sued if he tries to quote what Tim might have said? that might be why he doesnt want to put all the details down, because he cant prove any of it but would perhaps find legal action taken against him for deformation of character, or something along those lines.
even so, i dont see the point of the original thread as to make an aggressive statement with no apparent foundation is pointless, plus its also not the right place to do it, im not sure it needs to be aired at all. i dont really think a single person on the planet cares if rudy splits from anything.

[Mike Brewer]

Okay. I finally spoke with Rudy on the phone and got a more complete picture of what's happened between he and Tim Tackett, and why the split took place. I've been given Rudy's permission to paraphrase him, so I'll do my best to accurately represent his intent, and the content of our conversation, without injecting my own opinions. I'll share my own opinions later, but for now, I'll simply lay out Rudy's side. FYI: The reason I am bothering to lay out Rudy's side is because he says he is not a gifted writer, and that he is better at making his case in spoken terms. These views are my interpretation of Rudy Franco's opinions, based upon our conversation tonight, and the mutual understanding that he agreed to when I paraphrased my understanding back to him. Here goes:

The original post (the Declaration of Independence from the Wednesday Night Group, as it were) was never meant to be a big circus sideshow. Rudy posted it with the blessing of his instructor on many public JKD sites simply to show that the two groups were no longer affiliated. Previous to the split, Rudy/Lloyd's group had worked side-by-side with Tim Tackett both at the Wednesday Night gatherings and at seminars, so a lot of people have become accustomed to seeing them in the same venues. The Declaration was to serve as notice to all that the two groups would no longer be appearing together in any venue, but were going their separate ways.

The reasons behind this split are both personal and professional. Rudy and Lloyd disagreed with Tim's approach to teaching and to certifiying instructors in his arts. They felt Tim was allowing people to progress too quickly, without proper qualifications or due diligence in the system(s), and that the instructors that were representing Tim (and by proxy, Lloyd and Rudy) were of questionable skill and ability.

Things were further exacerbated because Rudy feels that Tim Tackett does not give proper credit to his sources when it is due. He cited several instances of seminar hosts telling him about a Tim Tackett drill or technique that was really a Larry Hartsell drill or technique, or a Lloyd Kennedy drill or technique. Rudy believes that Tim Tackett too often teaches things he doesn't know well enough, and doesn't give credit where it is due. Rather, he takes knowledge from others and claims it as his own material, even when he doesn't know it well enough.

As mentioned previously, Tim's occasional use of racial humor was also seen as a "deal-breaker" of sorts in the personal and professional relationship between the two groups. He says he addressed this with Tim on more than one occasion, but that it got to be too much.

Finally, he feels that Tim Tackett often says one thing to his face, and another behind his back. He says that Tim has done this with virtually everyone he knows.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Now for my opinions.

I told Rudy that to fault a JKD man for taking material, incorporating it into what he does, and then teaching it from his own perspective is ridiculous. That's what JKD people (especially those who heard Bruce Lee himself tell them to do it) do. They look for good material, they take what they think will work for them, and they blend it into their own mix. In that respect, I think Tim Tackett is doing exactly what's expected of a JKD man. No harm, no foul.

I also told Rudy I didn't know Tim Tackett personally, and that I could care less if he and his group continue to associate with the man. Not many of us here ever knew the two associated in the first place, so the split means little if anything. I said that not many of us here, especially myself, give a damn who he likes or doesn't like, and that his hatred for Tim Tackett was never the issue. The issue was why he chose to open fire in this forum without explaining himself. I told him that he was, in fact, engaging in the very behavior he accused Tim Tackett of (bad-mouthing people), and he clarified that his behavior was different because it was out in the open and he wasn't trying to benefit from Tim Tackett in any way. I told him I still thought it was tacky, and that he should have known from the outset that it was going to draw fire.

Since I don't know the context of Tim's alleged racial slurs, I didn't comment too much on those. However, it sounded as though Tim made jokes about the people he was around. Like me calling my good friend Dan Torres a wetback or him calling me a cracker red-neck trailer-park reject in good fun, I don't think jokes can be considered racist unless they are mean-spirited. Rudy made the comment that those kinds of jokes were only funny if someone from the target race was around to hear them. To me, it seems that if Rudy was around to hear them, that criteria was fulfilled. This sounded more like a disagreement about what's funny and what isn't than a true race issue.

As for the issue of Tim Tackett being two-faced, all I have to go on is what I've seen here. Maybe that's less than what Rudy has to go on. But Tim Tackett has always held others in high regard here. He's always encouraged beginners in their pursuits, and he's always been congenial and self-effacing in conversations. I for one am not willing to make a leap and believe someone who is obviously angry with Tim in his accusations, and since I don't know Tim Tackett personally, I choose to believe the best about him, and to believe it until he somehow proves otherwise. My opinion of Tim Tackett hasn't changed, and I still respect the man entirely.

My opinion of Rudy Franco has changed somewhat, however. Although I was miffed about having to make four phone calls and send pages and pages of posts back and forth to finally get even the most basic of explanations, he did, after all was said and done, explain his side. His gripe with Tim Tackett is a personal one, to be sure. The fact that it became a spectacle here is regretable. His tactics, I think, were still pretty poor - or at the very least shortsighted. I still don't know if I agree with the idea of posting such a declaration on every public JKD site he can find, but I suppose it's not against the law to be impetuous or emotional. I respect Rudy's willingness to talk about things, even when the questions I asked were pointed. I just wish he'd done so in the open, on these boards, so we could have all saved ourselves a week of foolishness.

[Thai Bri]

But it was fun though.

[lssanjose]

All I can say in all this is: diplomacy is never the answer. All you really do is cover up the truth to give the appearance of unity. A lot in the JKD world are guilty of this, even the most notable ones.

[Rudy Franco]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Okay. I finally spoke with Rudy on the phone and got a more complete picture of what's happened between he and Tim Tackett, and why the split took place. I've been given Rudy's permission to paraphrase him, so I'll do my best to accurately represent his intent, and the content of our conversation, without injecting my own opinions. I'll share my own opinions later, but for now, I'll simply lay out Rudy's side. FYI: The reason I am bothering to lay out Rudy's side is because he says he is not a gifted writer, and that he is better at making his case in spoken terms. These views are my interpretation of Rudy Franco's opinions, based upon our conversation tonight, and the mutual understanding that he agreed to when I paraphrased my understanding back to him. Here goes:

The original post (the Declaration of Independence from the Wednesday Night Group, as it were) was never meant to be a big circus sideshow. Rudy posted it with the blessing of his instructor on many public JKD sites simply to show that the two groups were no longer affiliated. Previous to the split, Rudy/Lloyd's group had worked side-by-side with Tim Tackett both at the Wednesday Night gatherings and at seminars, so a lot of people have become accustomed to seeing them in the same venues. The Declaration was to serve as notice to all that the two groups would no longer be appearing together in any venue, but were going their separate ways.

The reasons behind this split are both personal and professional. Rudy and Lloyd disagreed with Tim's approach to teaching and to certifiying instructors in his arts. They felt Tim was allowing people to progress too quickly, without proper qualifications or due diligence in the system(s), and that the instructors that were representing Tim (and by proxy, Lloyd and Rudy) were of questionable skill and ability.

Things were further exacerbated because Rudy feels that Tim Tackett does not give proper credit to his sources when it is due. He cited several instances of seminar hosts telling him about a Tim Tackett drill or technique that was really a Larry Hartsell drill or technique, or a Lloyd Kennedy drill or technique. Rudy believes that Tim Tackett too often teaches things he doesn't know well enough, and doesn't give credit where it is due. Rather, he takes knowledge from others and claims it as his own material, even when he doesn't know it well enough.

As mentioned previously, Tim's occasional use of racial humor was also seen as a "deal-breaker" of sorts in the personal and professional relationship between the two groups. He says he addressed this with Tim on more than one occasion, but that it got to be too much.

Finally, he feels that Tim Tackett often says one thing to his face, and another behind his back. He says that Tim has done this with virtually everyone he knows.

-----------------------------------------------------------

MB,

You did what you what said you would and for that all I can say is thanks.

There were many more facets to explore both personal and professional.

I also want to clarify that just because someone on the outward appearances seems professional, doesn't automatically make them ethical.

Unilateral decision making for a group is a dictatorship(EGO fueled control fits), bypassing senior students for suck ups is outrageous and disrespectful because you can make a bigger buck off of the suck up (for the record we were neither), telling individuals how much to charge and what to teach at their own seminar (don't give them too much information and try to dumb it down), saying you are going to send a senior student to a seminar and then not doing it, all the while asking someone else's (our opinion) opinion about your own student(after decades of loyalty, this is chicken shit.), claiming non profit but collecting money for the "group" at camps( We taught at at least four camps have yet to see the "books" or the new equipment supposedly bought for the "group"), outright lying and making promises you don't intent to keep to get instructors from other states to show up to the camps and then saying the deal has changed or that you don't recall the details(Dirty and again chicken shit).We took our stand because we were tried of being asked to lower our training standards and sell our integrity. I find it silly and disrespectful to Bob Bremer in this months issue of Black Belt on Page 82, and the uninformed claim that I am an egotistical asshole.

PS although the poll is far from scientifically sound, those that choose to contact tackett and/or train with him long enough will see if I was an egotist or whistle blower. Only time will tell....

[Thai Bri]

Now imagine if you had another kind of Rudy Franco poll? How about a Rudy Franco POLE!

Imagine, a pole so strong that even Rudy Franco could pole dance for us all without it breaking. And he'd keep dancin' if you slid doughnuts into his thongs.

No. Sorry. Don't imagine that guys. Just don't do it. I have just damaged myself psychologically by doing so........

[Garland]

Rudy...what we had here was a lack of communication. Take note of how Mike spelled everything out succinctly and without being defensive or resorting to name calling. Had you responded with that to any of our questions or comments in the other post...I'm sure very few people would fault you or find reason to make personal attacks on you. Since you instead decided to insult everyone here...instead of rationally stating your position...you, as Mike said- "drew fire".

Given the situation, I can respect the initial post's intent...but the way you worded it was general enough to come off as insulting and inflammatory to the many fine people who post here. In the future, you could probably avoid and resolve conflict by stating your position.

Here's an exercise for you- use complete messages:
express your- observations
thoughts/attitudes
feelings
wants/needs

This is a great way to express yourself and avoid mixed or partial messages...especially over a medium like a telephone or the internet where people can't pick up on metamessages or paralanguage.

Pick up a book on TA (transactional analysis) and learn how to avoid the ulterior transactions you use (coming from both the punitive parent and needy/whiny child ego state)...and instead learn how to resolve or diffuse situtions by instead speaking from a calm and reasoned adult ego state.

Also...try to make appeals to people's logos, pathos, and ethos. This is all simple speech 101 and communications class stuff.

[Thai Bri]

Hey!

I haven't had any threatening and abusive private messages from Rudy in the last coupe of days! Is he ok? Or has his heart finally given up the ghost?