Whats the deal with Tommy Carruthers? - Page 2

g-bells · 01-25-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wee_man

Don't go to Carruthers. He is a fraud. He talks himself up as knowing more than he does and his original Instructor Prof Gary Dill says he only did 2 days with him and once he got the bit of paper he ran. So all the talk of knowing the purest strain of JKD is all bullshit. He made his name with his seminar video flying about cyberspace. Apart from that he has no credibility as a JKD instructor. I got caught up in the hype after viewing those clips and promptly joined his class. What a RIP-OFF!! All it was was scenarios and dummy fighting. There was no moves taught. Also an induction was required before allowed to take part in class. All this consisted of was 4 lessons of basic footwork, kicking and bobbing and weaving. All for £100. You could learn that from a basic self defence book. Bloody discrace. I found him to be obnoxious and his head up his arse.

All I can say is DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE

why not try them both then make a decision, having the chance to train with them two is a luxury most of us don't have and i would take full advantage of it

just my 2 cents

Mike Brewer · 01-25-2008, 11:15 PM

You have to wonder what ulterior motives are flying around when a brand new member on his first post revives a months-old thread just to talk bad about someone...

Michael Wright · 01-26-2008, 10:17 AM

yep, and talking a load of garbage too

Mr Carruthers did start under Gary Dill, but has since gone on to train with many first generation Bruce Lee students such as Ted Wong, Howard Williams and Jesse Glover to name a few. He is certified under Ted Wong and is his rep in the UK, for a start.

To repeat what I said when this thread was first posted, I trained with Mr Carruthers circa 97/98 and I think he is very good at what he does. Before even getting involved with Mr Dill he was a Boxer, and the man is in incredible shape. His speed, strength and power have been rivalled by very few in all of my studies since. I don't care what you call it or who thinks they have the pure form, the man can definitely motor.

I have no personal motivation for stating any of this, I think people know my lineage and loyalties.

Mike Brewer · 01-26-2008, 11:25 AM

I don't care who he studied under. Here's the man moving:

YouTube - Tommy Carruthers Jeet Kune Do

YouTube - Tommy Carruthers Jeet Kune Do

And yes, I'm aware that these are all demos and no one is fighting back. Look at these like an example of attributes, though, and I think you can see he's at least got the building blocks, no matter what his lineage.

Michael Wright · 01-26-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

I don't care who he studied under.

Easy there Brewer, I was just trying to offer a bit of background!

Mike Brewer · 01-26-2008, 05:50 PM

That was meant to be in your defense, Michael!

wee_man · 01-28-2008, 12:28 PM

Michael Wright

Why did u leave if he was so good ? And also 10 years is a long time ago so why has it taken him so long to finally get reconised, albeit through selfish self-promotion through cyberspace. If he was a bone fide martial artist he would be writing in magazines and getting exposure that way, like Rick Young. You earn respect, not force it on people's faces. That's the thing about showcase video's, they are all stage-managed and doesn't necessary reflect the person's technical ability. Anyway, it's a different thing being a martial artist and Instructor. Some people can make the transition and some can't. Martial Arts is not all about being physical, there's the spiritual and Intellectual side. Not a lot of people can claim to be a complete Martial Artist

Michael Wright · 01-28-2008, 02:27 PM

Moved job, moved house, moved on. Simple as that really.

Look wee-man, you clearly have a beef with TC for whatever reason so wanted to come on and vent your spleen. You've done that, so don't try to turn it into some philosophical discussion about a true martial artist, or the evils of "cyberspace" (you're on an internet forum by the way). Just say what you have to say.

And by the way, Rick Young gained recognition and respect by being an awesome, world class martial artist - not by writing in a magazine.

Mike Brewer · 01-28-2008, 02:51 PM

Such a soap opera.

I swear, sometime soon, someone's evil twin brother is going to come back from the dead and recover from amnesia only to discover that he is the father of the younger woman he's been seeing.

Why do people care so much why you stayed or left, I wonder?

Is it because they can't tell from what's been written so far that this is a thread about judging the man for what he can do rather than judging him on his pedigree?

Before you know it, people will be passing judgement on you and me for suggesting something as radical as ... gasp! ... finding out for oneself before labelling the guy.

Mike Brewer · 01-28-2008, 03:05 PM

Sorry for the second post.

Something I wanted to mention is that Rick Young is definitely a class act and someone you could depend on for quality instruction. As for Carruthers, I don't know the guy. I've never met him, probably never will meet him. Haven't trained with many of the people he claims to be under either. I've never identified much with the "Original" JKD crowd, although I respect many of them, so I can't see myself going out of my way to go train things that really don't interest me much.

My point here was not to champion Tommy Carruthers per se. My point was that I think it's sad, petty, and cheap to trash a guy in the internet just for the sake of doing so. I also think it reeks of hypocrisy that many of the same people who'd criticize others for getting hung up on the JKD name are the same people who criticize people like Carruthers for not being "legitimate" enough in his JKD lineage. Which is it? Are we supposed to care about the name or not?

I think if you're truly asking questions about legitimacy based on certificates, then one of the questions you have to ask is how he got "the piece of paper" from Dill after just two days in the first place. If that's the kind of certification you're pinning legitimacy to, then the problem runs far deeper than you're admitting. If Carruthers is a good martial artist and a good instructor that can make you better, I think that counts for a lot no matter where he got his skill. If he's a pretender and somehow feels it's necessary to get legitimacy from some kind of fake lineage, well then people will see that. But honestly, how much difference does it make who's name is at the bottom of your certificate if you can kick ass? More importantly, if you can't fight your way out of a wet paper bag, is a certificate from someone "legitimate" going to help?

Liberty · 01-30-2008, 02:20 PM

[quote=Mike Brewer;290424]Such a soap opera.

I swear, sometime soon, someone's evil twin brother is going to come back from the dead and recover from amnesia only to discover that he is the father of the younger woman he's been seeing.QUOTE]

Actually, I used to know a guy who ended up doing just that! An ex-street gang member; he was hanging out with some others still in their own gang when a war with their rivals broke out. When they came looking for blood, he was caught in the middle, shot, and left for dead. When he recovered, his alcoholism deepened and so forth.... Some time later, he sended up with a girl younger then him. When he sobered up, turned she was his daughter! The poor guy is a wreck today...

I tell ya, sometimes I think there isn't a scene we can come up with that human beings have not already been through somewhere at some time. What a world...

Mike Brewer · 01-30-2008, 02:26 PM

Jesus. I hope you're making that up.

Tell the truth, Lib -

You're quoting from some script you read, right?

(I'm kidding, I'm kidding!)

Liberty · 01-30-2008, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

Jesus. I hope you're making that up.

Tell the truth, Lib -

You're quoting from some script you read, right?

(I'm kidding, I'm kidding!)

Actually, I was quoting from a script. It's called, "Life: The only game where the object of the game is to learn the rules."

This really happened, poor guy/daughter. Hey, here's an idea - if you'd like, I could track them down and give them your email address! You could interview them for that book of yours. LOL!

On that note, how is that book coming along - gonna be a hell of a read!

Let me know if you need someone to research, make-up or reinterpret any quotes you decide to use - LOL!

Still love ya, guy. Peace. Liberty.

Mike Brewer · 01-30-2008, 09:08 PM

Naw, I can do my own writing. No need to plagiarize.

Besides, I'm sure you'll be quoting my stuff in a few years anyway.

It's coming along pretty well. Another forum member here is an excellent sounding board, and he's done so much to get me on track and keep me there, I think I'm going to have to name him as a co-author.

Michael Wright · 01-31-2008, 05:06 AM

No discredit to the forum member who is assisting you, but this is your work. Your experiences, your words, and your creativity that puts them on the page. This is your book.

Along the way there will be plenty of people who want to put their finger into your pie, so from the outset hold a firm line on your ownership

Just my 2c sir.

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01-25-2008, 11:15 PM	#17 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,080	You have to wonder what ulterior motives are flying around when a brand new member on his first post revives a months-old thread just to talk bad about someone...

01-26-2008, 10:17 AM	#18 (permalink)
Michael Wright Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 890	yep, and talking a load of garbage too Mr Carruthers did start under Gary Dill, but has since gone on to train with many first generation Bruce Lee students such as Ted Wong, Howard Williams and Jesse Glover to name a few. He is certified under Ted Wong and is his rep in the UK, for a start. To repeat what I said when this thread was first posted, I trained with Mr Carruthers circa 97/98 and I think he is very good at what he does. Before even getting involved with Mr Dill he was a Boxer, and the man is in incredible shape. His speed, strength and power have been rivalled by very few in all of my studies since. I don't care what you call it or who thinks they have the pure form, the man can definitely motor. I have no personal motivation for stating any of this, I think people know my lineage and loyalties.

01-26-2008, 05:50 PM	#21 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,080	That was meant to be in your defense, Michael!

01-28-2008, 12:28 PM	#22 (permalink)
wee_man Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3	Michael Wright Why did u leave if he was so good ? And also 10 years is a long time ago so why has it taken him so long to finally get reconised, albeit through selfish self-promotion through cyberspace. If he was a bone fide martial artist he would be writing in magazines and getting exposure that way, like Rick Young. You earn respect, not force it on people's faces. That's the thing about showcase video's, they are all stage-managed and doesn't necessary reflect the person's technical ability. Anyway, it's a different thing being a martial artist and Instructor. Some people can make the transition and some can't. Martial Arts is not all about being physical, there's the spiritual and Intellectual side. Not a lot of people can claim to be a complete Martial Artist

01-28-2008, 02:27 PM	#23 (permalink)
Michael Wright Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 890	Moved job, moved house, moved on. Simple as that really. Look wee-man, you clearly have a beef with TC for whatever reason so wanted to come on and vent your spleen. You've done that, so don't try to turn it into some philosophical discussion about a true martial artist, or the evils of "cyberspace" (you're on an internet forum by the way). Just say what you have to say. And by the way, Rick Young gained recognition and respect by being an awesome, world class martial artist - not by writing in a magazine.

01-28-2008, 02:51 PM	#24 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,080	Such a soap opera. I swear, sometime soon, someone's evil twin brother is going to come back from the dead and recover from amnesia only to discover that he is the father of the younger woman he's been seeing. Why do people care so much why you stayed or left, I wonder? Is it because they can't tell from what's been written so far that this is a thread about judging the man for what he can do rather than judging him on his pedigree? Before you know it, people will be passing judgement on you and me for suggesting something as radical as ... gasp! ... finding out for oneself before labelling the guy.

01-28-2008, 03:05 PM	#25 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,080	Sorry for the second post. Something I wanted to mention is that Rick Young is definitely a class act and someone you could depend on for quality instruction. As for Carruthers, I don't know the guy. I've never met him, probably never will meet him. Haven't trained with many of the people he claims to be under either. I've never identified much with the "Original" JKD crowd, although I respect many of them, so I can't see myself going out of my way to go train things that really don't interest me much. My point here was not to champion Tommy Carruthers per se. My point was that I think it's sad, petty, and cheap to trash a guy in the internet just for the sake of doing so. I also think it reeks of hypocrisy that many of the same people who'd criticize others for getting hung up on the JKD name are the same people who criticize people like Carruthers for not being "legitimate" enough in his JKD lineage. Which is it? Are we supposed to care about the name or not? I think if you're truly asking questions about legitimacy based on certificates, then one of the questions you have to ask is how he got "the piece of paper" from Dill after just two days in the first place. If that's the kind of certification you're pinning legitimacy to, then the problem runs far deeper than you're admitting. If Carruthers is a good martial artist and a good instructor that can make you better, I think that counts for a lot no matter where he got his skill. If he's a pretender and somehow feels it's necessary to get legitimacy from some kind of fake lineage, well then people will see that. But honestly, how much difference does it make who's name is at the bottom of your certificate if you can kick ass? More importantly, if you can't fight your way out of a wet paper bag, is a certificate from someone "legitimate" going to help?

01-30-2008, 02:20 PM	#26 (permalink)
Liberty Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 456	[quote=Mike Brewer;290424]Such a soap opera. I swear, sometime soon, someone's evil twin brother is going to come back from the dead and recover from amnesia only to discover that he is the father of the younger woman he's been seeing.QUOTE] Actually, I used to know a guy who ended up doing just that! An ex-street gang member; he was hanging out with some others still in their own gang when a war with their rivals broke out. When they came looking for blood, he was caught in the middle, shot, and left for dead. When he recovered, his alcoholism deepened and so forth.... Some time later, he sended up with a girl younger then him. When he sobered up, turned she was his daughter! The poor guy is a wreck today... I tell ya, sometimes I think there isn't a scene we can come up with that human beings have not already been through somewhere at some time. What a world...

01-30-2008, 02:26 PM	#27 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,080	Jesus. I hope you're making that up. Tell the truth, Lib - You're quoting from some script you read, right? (I'm kidding, I'm kidding!)

01-30-2008, 09:08 PM	#29 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,080	Naw, I can do my own writing. No need to plagiarize. Besides, I'm sure you'll be quoting my stuff in a few years anyway. It's coming along pretty well. Another forum member here is an excellent sounding board, and he's done so much to get me on track and keep me there, I think I'm going to have to name him as a co-author.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

01-31-2008, 05:06 AM	#30 (permalink)
Michael Wright Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 890	No discredit to the forum member who is assisting you, but this is your work. Your experiences, your words, and your creativity that puts them on the page. This is your book. Along the way there will be plenty of people who want to put their finger into your pie, so from the outset hold a firm line on your ownership Just my 2c sir.