To people who don't seem to believe Bruce Lee is the real deal..

[lucidmist]

also, neither did i once say "HE'S THE BEST!". I just believe that the guy could fight.

and no, don't have to only be polite to the ones who have some say in the forum or be only nice to an instructor/master and be extremely rude and mindlessly insulting to those who are new or unknown backgrounds. that's right, so "real" of you.

and you think there's always an autobiographer, handy cameraman, ready to film or chronicle every street fight or challenge? you think if he was faking it, it wouldn't have been leaked by now? you think it's that easy a stunt to pull, faking all that he could do or did? oh yes, to you, every fight was false just cos it wasn't videotaped or a competition. so yeah, nothing to leak.

name the fakers then. that's right, so, to you, taky, james demile, jesse glover, ted wong, fakes or not? cos they gave good accounts of bruce's ability to fight. don't be what you claim others to be, afraid to "do anything real". NAME the people you think are fakes. like the top martial artists you mentioned that said bruce was good and made money off him. do something real. name them.

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by lucidmist

man, you must either be blind or can't read properly. what do you mean "he fought no one"?????

anyway, i'm too far away from anything that's related to jkd, it's money-making opportunities or whatnot to be saying it to boost any benefits for myself. also, bruce is dead. lick his ass? how to?? i have none of bruce's memorabilia, both online or offline. heck, i don't even have a t-shirt with his name or face printed on! worship? i just happened to have an opinion that i believe in!

plus, bruce lee's fighting ability, and jkd, are all separate issues. you hate the politics in jkd (as do i) and how it's being twisted around (i hate that too), but that's nothing to do with bruce lee's ability!

anyway, if you happen to be in my town, then by all means, look me up. we can spar, fight, whatever. pm me anytime to talk or discuss. and no, i'm not using any instructor's name. did i mention any instructor at all???

plus, there's nothing to gain for many of the people who're saying good stuff about bruce's fighting abilities. taky isn't making a profit, and the other instructors running their own schools now did mention stuff about how they feel now that some of what bruce said wasn't exactly right (by them), but still maintained he could fight.

ah, all you can resort to is name-calling. you can't prove he can't fight, but there's more than enough evidence to say he can. people have different points of views. you hate bruce lee, think that he can't fight, but there are many who believe that he can. and just because those of us believe he can fight, we become chickens, and are too scared to do anything real, or wannabes? just for having a different opinion from you, "master"??

you can dislike bruce lee, not believe that he could fight, but you need not stop others from believing. and neither is there a need to insult, put down, or call names just because others have their own views.

if you can hold a demonstration, let people come up to test you and best them, become something of a master yourself, then maybe you can have a fraction of a right to put somebody else's skill and ability down. and even the real masters don't do that.

if your first post wasnt ass licking then i dont know what is.
Who cares if bruce lee can fight or not, you do, you made a thread about it...

Look at the threads in the JKD section of this forum...notice a pattern. go on go and look, bruce lee did this bruce lee did that. always focusing on what someone else did and not what they are doing.

I dont need to prove bruce lee wasnt a great fighter, show me some of the fights and ill give my opinion. I dont hate bruce lee, ive never met him, ive seen videos of him that didnt impress me.what do you want me to do? just decide to be impressed?
I think his students have done a much better job than he did, then again they have had more time, oh well.

And you say i have to hold a demonstration and beat people in order to have an opinion that conflicts with the notion that bruce lee was he-man. why? i have enough experience in martial arts to know what im talking about. ive been around the block a few times mate.

Im really not going to get into one over bruce lees fighting ability, we already have a whole forum dedicated to it and its the most boring subject on the planet because its like religion and requires faith in the unseen.

anyway good luck to you im sure your pinning up another poster as we speak.

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by lucidmist

also, neither did i once say "HE'S THE BEST!". I just believe that the guy could fight.

and no, don't have to only be polite to the ones who have some say in the forum or be only nice to an instructor/master and be extremely rude and mindlessly insulting to those who are new or unknown backgrounds. that's right, so "real" of you.

and you think there's always an autobiographer, handy cameraman, ready to film or chronicle every street fight or challenge? you think if he was faking it, it wouldn't have been leaked by now? you think it's that easy a stunt to pull, faking all that he could do or did? oh yes, to you, every fight was false just cos it wasn't videotaped or a competition. so yeah, nothing to leak.

name the fakers then. that's right, so, to you, taky, james demile, jesse glover, ted wong, fakes or not? cos they gave good accounts of bruce's ability to fight. don't be what you claim others to be, afraid to "do anything real". NAME the people you think are fakes. like the top martial artists you mentioned that said bruce was good and made money off him. do something real. name them.

yeah obviously there was never ever a camera around in those days...ever.

I dont need to name the people i dont respect, i dont want to go down that route because i know it will lead to people getting pissed off. other people on this thread know what im talking about even if they dont like how i worded out.

head out of sand time mate.

[lucidmist]

hey, mister, all i did was say that i believe he could fight, and why i believe so. tons of people made threads about that, i just gave an opinion. if it rubs you off the wrong way, wake up man! YOU get your head out of your butt. not a crime to voice what i feel!

as for the fight, you insulted me, said i hid between my instructor's name and did not dare to do anything real. hey, you bastard, since when did i mention an instructor's name? and since you said i did not dare to do anything real, i took a stand, i said it was ok if you wanted to spar or fight, cos since you did not dare to specify what "real" meant, i thought when it came to martial arts, "real", meant a fight. at least because i got the idea from YOUR point of view, that fights are soooooooo important to you, that "real", meant a fight. at least i took a stand, whereas you simply mouthed off.

man.. weak. really weak.

you can't be "real" like the way you hollered at people, and you just resort, AGAIN, to name-calling. you've just insulted millions of people. and you don't know it, wiseguy.

until you dare to be "real" like the way you criticized everyone else, and be "real" and stop being chicken like you called others, and mention names clearly to back up the shit about what you say, shut the hell up.

[Michael Wright]

Lucid,

Just relax a little mate. Ghost was quick to admit that his post was a bit of a rant, we all do it, I know I have. What you need to understand about Ghost is that he comes from combat athletics such as Thai and Boxing, where there is no question of he may or may not have been, legend, or folklore - you either do the business in the ring or you don't - your record speaks for itself. But also understand that he is trained in JKD and respects the art, he's just not into the belief system that you are, but each to their own.

In terms of Bruce Lee, I have said this over and over again. Guro Inosanto still, to this day, holds Mr Lee up to be the most phenomenal martial artist he has ever met - a true one off. Think about the company that includes, including Guro Inosanto himself. That is quite simply all I need to hear to convince me that Bruce Lee was a fcking awesome martial artist. If it wasn't for him I never would have found martial arts, and we wouldn't be on this forum. He has my full respect.

[lucidmist]

i'm ok.

i was never in a competition, yeah, i can't fight. like many who can't just cos they never competed. so, if Ghost wants something "real", he can look me up, or vice versa. he can tell me where to find him, or vice versa. i never once said i could fight well, but he wanted me to be "real", remember? he can come teach me a lesson for "real". and since i'm a fake who hides behind my instructor's name (which i still don't know when the hell i mentioned), erm, i'd be an easy opponent. or better yet, why doesn't he go look up those top masters like dan inosanto and ted wong, among others, who spoke well of bruce lee? why? cos i'm an easier target when i simply agreed with them? he can go prove they're not "doing anything real"! oh, i forgot, he looks at credentials. but hey, these are the ones directly benefiting, financially, from bruce's art. so, is he calling them fakes?? i have no credentials.. so he picks on me. then come pick on me for "real"!

and yes, it's absolutely dumb to fight over this, but it's absolutely retarded to insult so many people over somebody's opinion. he was looking for trouble, or trying to prove he was "real" by calling others fake and all sorts of other names, yet not doing anything about it, except call more names.

quick to admit his post was "a BIT of a rant"? yeah, he sure admitted to you, cos he wanted to lick your butt. but he sure didn't apologize for his mindless insults man, over a harmless thing that i did. and what did i do? all i did, was give an opinion, dude.

bruce lee was awesome, still is. and ghost, if you want to be like thousands of others that only know how to spout brainless, childish insults, then you ain't that knowledgeable after all - on life, at least. and if you've had any real experience in martial arts, REAL experience, then you should know that the most important thing is restraint, on words. otherwise, you've learnt nothing.

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by lucidmist

i'm ok.

i've fought many times, but just cos i wasn't in a competition, yeah, i can't fight. like many who can't just cos they never competed. so, if Ghost wants something "real", he can look me up, or vice versa. he can tell me where to find him, or vice versa. i never once said i could fight well, but he wanted me to be "real", remember? he can come teach me a lesson for "real", then.

quick to admit his post was "a BIT of a rant"? yeah, he sure admitted to you, cos he wanted to lick your butt. but he sure didn't apologize for his mindless insults of like millions of people man, over a harmless thing that i did? all i did, was give an opinion dude.

i would absolutely never fight someone over a bruce lee thread in a martial arts forum. i have no wish at all to fight you, not even slightly, i just dont agree with you. no need to fight someone just cos they dont agree with you or annoy you.
i didnt insult millions of people. michael is right its more the minority but im fed up with these threads and a certain element in the JKD world, ive expliained this already. as im sure you are fed up with people that dont believe in bruce lee. i have really no interest in bruce lee. half of what i said was because the topic pisses me off for the reasons i have stated before.

[jubaji]

Wow, Lucymissed there really needs to calm down. Maybe licking the balls of a dead man has given him brain damage or something.

Might I recommend some competition to work off all that energy?

[lucidmist]

jubajizzabel, somehow it's gotta involve your big mouth from your empty brain, when i did absolutely nothing to you, from day 1. continue to lick your own balls, instead of licking ghost's ass. you too. if you ain't happy with me, let's meet up. we can talk like men, and you can put a stop to me for "real", instead of constant childish internet antics. besides, the street is a better teacher than the ring. kid.

anyway, ghost, i have no wish to fight either. when you started insulting me - for a harmless post, i just took your word about being "real", because that was what you asked for.

if things piss you off, you should learn at least in life, it doesn't mean something doesn't rub you off right or just cos it's something you don't like, doesn't constitute mindless insults from you. if you don't agree, give comments on why. you can be civil, not rant mindless and childish insults. i understand it's something you can't stand. but it doesn't mean it's wrong, or you're right. who are you to call people names and say they're fakes anyway? so are you saying dan inosanto, taky and other masters are not "real" because they blow bruce lee up? i am well aware of how many people are using bruce lee's name or jkd to spin off gains for themselves, but that has nothing to do with bruce's ability, and certainly nothing to do with me. or are you trying to pick on me cos you think i'm an easy target? try that anywhere else. you see someone drinking something you don't like, go up and call him brainless for drinking that drink. ah, it's always easier to be a self-righteous "hero" online and throw insults cos you can vent all your childish anger without getting into serious trouble.

if you're so "real", then answer the REAL questions. who are the fake masters you mentioned, and why do you think bruce couldn't fight? just cos he never competed doesn't mean he couldn't fight. so what else? was it his speed? his timing? his accuracy? lack of power? tell it like it is, not useless childish insults.

[Ghost]

I think you arent getting what i mean.
im not talking about people like Dan.
Not all of what i said was aimed at you, if you read other peoples posts you will see that they agree with the parts of what i say about JKD having a rotten element to it. thats what im talking about, i used this thread as a venting platform for other things too.re-read it and you might see what i mean, its not all aimed at you, its a rant about a certain element in JKD, that has in my opinion, lost the plot.

[lucidmist]

but when people strike off bruce as a fighter, wouldn't they be striking insanto and taky off worse than bruce? cos they don't even have a single documented fight. so, if the people out there call bruce a fake JUST BECAUSE he never competed or had a videotaped street fight, wouldn't they be calling the other masters who never fought or competed fake too? these masters are the real deal (AGAIN, in my opinion, you don't have to agree), and i hope you're not agreeing they're real just cos they're still alive and strong in the jkd community.

alright, but if you wanna hurl insults, at least understand why i got pissed too. you weren't pretty specific. just insults. and honestly, i did nothing wrong but just say what i believed. i gain nothing at all! i too am really sick of people ranting insults at anyone and trying to put people on the stand when they themselves do not dare to get on the stand when called.

i know you're sick of all the people who twist jkd around. me too. it's getting to a point where just cos jkd says there's no style, ANY junk can be thrown in to build the concept of jkd, and that constitutes a jkd class. it's sad.

[Ghost]

wasnt suggesting they dont know what they are doing, i actually said all this before, you dont have to have competed to be a good instructor.
You cant claim to be a good fighter if you have never fought and you cant claim someone else is a good fighter if you have never seen them fight.

i think its a huge leap to suggest someone is a good fighter based on them knowing what they are doing technically.
The make up of a good fighter is different and you dont know how someone will react in combat untill they are they, you can only guess.
Avoiding the camera but stating one is great is a warning sign to me.
If i was bruce i would have had all these fights recorded so this would never be questioned.
So i cant agree that he is good based on movie roles and athletic demonstrations and good technique. fighting requires different attributes but includes athletic ability and good technique.
If you want to say bruce had excellent technique i will agree with you, and if you want to say he was a phenomenal athlete/martial practitioner i will agree with you. i draw the line at saying he was a great figher because we dont know that.
sorry i know its a clinical way of dissecting it but thats me.

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by lithiummissed

jubajizzabel, somehow it's gotta involve your big mouth from your empty brain, if you ain't happy with me, let's meet up. we can talk like men, and you can put a stop to me for "real", instead of constant childish internet antics. besides, the street is a better teacher than the ring. kid..

Hey c'mon, stop it you're scaring me....

[lucidmist]

Originally Posted by jubachicken

Hey c'mon, stop it you're scaring me....

great, then the effect was right.

[lucidmist]

Originally Posted by Ghost

wasnt suggesting they dont know what they are doing, i actually said all this before, you dont have to have competed to be a good instructor.
You cant claim to be a good fighter if you have never fought and you cant claim someone else is a good fighter if you have never seen them fight.

i think its a huge leap to suggest someone is a good fighter based on them knowing what they are doing technically.
The make up of a good fighter is different and you dont know how someone will react in combat untill they are they, you can only guess.
Avoiding the camera but stating one is great is a warning sign to me.
If i was bruce i would have had all these fights recorded so this would never be questioned.
So i cant agree that he is good based on movie roles and athletic demonstrations and good technique. fighting requires different attributes but includes athletic ability and good technique.
If you want to say bruce had excellent technique i will agree with you, and if you want to say he was a phenomenal athlete/martial practitioner i will agree with you. i draw the line at saying he was a great figher because we dont know that.
sorry i know its a clinical way of dissecting it but thats me.

hmm. if you read your rant again, it definitely said many things about masters being fakes and not doing anything real. but whatever, forget it. i'm sure we're capable of discussing like adults.

anyway, i never once said bruce was the best, or that he could beat the whole world. read my post. i said i believed he COULD fight, not "i believe bruce could beat ANYONE". big difference man. and no, why would he constantly want someone or himself to lug a camera around in case there was a fight? when i was much younger, i got into street fights all the time, and never once was there any other thought in my head EXCEPT to wait and react! in the heat of the moment, whether challenged or sudden attack, look, no one's gonna have the frame of mind to tell the other party, "hey hold up a sec while i set up my video-camera, i wanna film this down". that's why a huge majority of video-taped fights on youtube, at least the supposed unplanned and spontaneous fights, are bogus. not all, but many. most of the real fights that are filmed are planned contests. and i did not base my view on his movie roles. since when? i mentioned the actual fights he had while on the set/street that people witnessed and gave accounts of. i only talked about the hard kicks or punches he gave while acting to illustrate that he had power, because witnesses and the "victims" gave their own accounts. not to illustrate his fighting ability. if you think those were staged and false (i repeat again, NOT the movie sequences, the actual off-movie fights, on the set or street), then like i said, you're entitled to your view, and that's fine.

look. i didn't do it out of "hero worship". i totally respect the man for what he's done, and just felt that it wasn't justifiable the way everyone was calling him a fake, based on nothing. just random name-calling and insults. so i gave my view on it, that's all. i'm not someone with bruce's posters on my wall, his t-shirt and collectibles. that's totally freaky. like, i see him as a martial artist who passed away young. to look at him like a toy figure and keep him on a shelf just feels totally wrong and disrespectful to a master, in my opinion. worse are those companies trying to cash in on him by ridiculing him with bigheaded and small-figured action figures. but of course, not slamming people who keep bruce's stuff. everyone leads a different kind of life and train of thought.

to me, if many of the masters vouched for bruce's fighting ability, and since many of them aren't any fakes, i'm taking their word for it. you have your view, i have mine.

thanks for the discussion.