Clip-Vunak/Enigma Vid.

HERQ454 · 11-16-2007, 11:20 PM

Vunak has new video out.Titled The Enigma.

YouTube - The Enigma by Paul Vunak

.

**Thai Bri** · 11-17-2007, 07:04 AM

"If you're in a life or death fight..... bite?"

Then what?

And he's still going on about the Seals? Wasn't that over a decade ago?

Sorry Mike. I know he's a hell of a martial artist and has been a great friend to you..... but this is poor. And he comes across as a bit mad.

ps - please ask him to ditch the drums...... please.

Michael Wright · 11-17-2007, 07:37 AM

chew and swallow I guess

Vu left his formal contract with the SEALs in 1991, but still acts as a consultant to a number of units

and he is mad

**Thai Bri** · 11-17-2007, 11:56 AM

Chew and swallw, yes. It could be your last meal when the guy who's cheek you're eating decided to stomp all over your head.

My point is this - biting will not stop highly adrenalised tough guys.

Knuckles&Knees · 11-17-2007, 02:25 PM

He does look mad, as in he has rage, but I don't know, I guess it is what it is (whatever that is).

I liked the video though, I especially liked what he said about the disabled kid, and I very much agree with him what *confidence* can do for you in life - in terms of bringing a peace inside you.

Shaolin Buddhist monks have been saying this for years - that a sense of physical confidence will transmit over into your spiritual confidence and growth.

I like the way he worked that bag at the end too. The music had its place as he was dealing with the spiritual aspect of humans too, and music as we know from the old "negro spirituals" sung by slaves in North America can carry you morally over the metaphorical hill top. Music also has an outstanding quality in Capoiera... and I swear to god the music and clapping in Capoeira can hype you up in a big way.

Michael Wright · 11-17-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thai Bri

Chew and swallw, yes. It could be your last meal when the guy who's cheek you're eating decided to stomp all over your head.

My point is this - biting will not stop highly adrenalised tough guys.

I know what your point is, it is based on 30 seconds of video footage, which is why I couldn't be bothered offering a serious response.

Nothing in isolation will stop the opponent you describe. The use of Kina Mutai forms a fraction of a far wider strategy, it has it's place at a given moment, it is by no means the beginning or end of the story.

I know that you already know all of this, you just wanted to have a dig at the video.

Shoot · 11-17-2007, 09:29 PM

I really enjoy Vu's videos. Yes, he's intense, but necessary in this age of sport fighting. I absolutely love MMA and what it's done for injecting reality, but even more reality is needed. Next time you're walking in a dangerous part of town imagine being confronted by a crazy man. I agree that biting and gouging are the "simple solution" to the technical art that is BJJ and ground fighting and really do not afford a response besides "all the way." Of course degrees of violence are necessary. IN that range of degrees of violence, the ability to close the deal all the way is necessary. A back ally assault is not a sport.

Vunak knows one thing that we should all get familiar with: you fight like you train.

If you can't kill and maim, then you can't fully protect yourself.

Joe Hubbard · 11-18-2007, 05:11 AM

I think it’s important to point out that the “biting” Vu is talking about is uninterrupted biting from a propitious position where the other guy cannot counter with his bite. The technique is meant to create space in order to neutralise the threat of being pinned down and killed by a bigger man. As Michael put it- only a part of a much bigger picture.

I quite like the clip; there is nothing new in there, but Vu is Vu; you either like it or not. Personally I wouldn’t have thrown the stick away while grounded, but biting and gouging fosters good muscle memory for extreme encounters. I have trained with him and he is the first to clarify the context in which you would resort to biting. It is not a “catch-all” technique that he espouses in a cavalier way; it is a brutal solution for extreme circumstances.

A quote from Vu: “Biting isn’t exactly healthy behaviour in this day and age, but if your wife and kid are being dragged into a van and you are pinned down by a bigger guy, you had better start biting.” (Paraphrased slightly)

A quote from Hock: “If I’m in the process of dying then I am going to bite regardless of being stricken down with HIV; in ten years there might be a cure, but right here and now the only thing that might save me is biting! Two choices- die now or in ten years possibly. I am going for the ten year gamble.”

Out

Joe

**Thai Bri** · 11-19-2007, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

I know what your point is, it is based on 30 seconds of video footage, which is why I couldn't be bothered offering a serious response.

Nothing in isolation will stop the opponent you describe. The use of Kina Mutai forms a fraction of a far wider strategy, it has it's place at a given moment, it is by no means the beginning or end of the story.

I know that you already know all of this, you just wanted to have a dig at the video.

That is so defensive. Maybe you are not as secure in your belief's as you think.

Michael Wright · 11-19-2007, 06:28 AM

Its OK, you can drop the pop psychology. I've just read my post back and I agree it comes across as defensive, and shitty - so I apologise.

I have never used Kina Mutai so its not a belief, its an understanding. You don't have to believe in every single thing you teach, but you should fully understand it, and I understand the use of Kina Mutai as a very small part of a larger strategy.

My issue is that your comments were, in my opinion, based on a lack of understanding - which is why I challenged them, albeit not in the best way. I still maintain though Bri, further a to a few conversations on here, that you are far to quick to generalise, and criticise.

Mike Brewer · 11-19-2007, 07:00 AM

Especially when it comes to Paul Vunak.

**Thai Bri** · 11-19-2007, 12:44 PM

I am quick to criticise. Good stuff can stand it.

Quick to generalise? Not too sure what you mean there.

Mike Brewer · 11-19-2007, 02:15 PM

Well, Bri - Pauls' been putting out tapes since around 1980, and he's had a loyal (and large) following since several years before that.

Looks like his stuff can stand it.

Makes me wonder why, after 30 or so years of "standing the test of time," you're still so quick to criticise him and his material.

Michael Wright · 11-19-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thai Bri

I am quick to criticise. Good stuff can stand it.

Quick to generalise? Not too sure what you mean there.

You're making a fairly bold assumption that good stuff will even care.

In all of your posts I have read on the topic of JKD you make generic statements, largely negative, based on limited understanding and experience of the subject matter. Thats what I mean.

Mike Brewer · 11-19-2007, 04:07 PM

Like I said: Paul's been teaching world class material since the mid seventies and has been putting out videos since around 1980. I don't think Bri is making a dent.

On the other hand, who's heard of Thai Bri's material?

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11-17-2007, 07:04 AM	#2 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,415	"If you're in a life or death fight..... bite?" Then what? And he's still going on about the Seals? Wasn't that over a decade ago? Sorry Mike. I know he's a hell of a martial artist and has been a great friend to you..... but this is poor. And he comes across as a bit mad. ps - please ask him to ditch the drums...... please.

11-17-2007, 07:37 AM	#3 (permalink)
Michael Wright Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 888	chew and swallow I guess Vu left his formal contract with the SEALs in 1991, but still acts as a consultant to a number of units and he is mad

11-17-2007, 11:56 AM	#4 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,415	Chew and swallw, yes. It could be your last meal when the guy who's cheek you're eating decided to stomp all over your head. My point is this - biting will not stop highly adrenalised tough guys.

11-17-2007, 02:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
Knuckles&Knees Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 169	He does look mad, as in he has rage, but I don't know, I guess it is what it is (whatever that is). I liked the video though, I especially liked what he said about the disabled kid, and I very much agree with him what confidence can do for you in life - in terms of bringing a peace inside you. Shaolin Buddhist monks have been saying this for years - that a sense of physical confidence will transmit over into your spiritual confidence and growth. I like the way he worked that bag at the end too. The music had its place as he was dealing with the spiritual aspect of humans too, and music as we know from the old "negro spirituals" sung by slaves in North America can carry you morally over the metaphorical hill top. Music also has an outstanding quality in Capoiera... and I swear to god the music and clapping in Capoeira can hype you up in a big way.

11-17-2007, 09:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
Shoot Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 167	I really enjoy Vu's videos. Yes, he's intense, but necessary in this age of sport fighting. I absolutely love MMA and what it's done for injecting reality, but even more reality is needed. Next time you're walking in a dangerous part of town imagine being confronted by a crazy man. I agree that biting and gouging are the "simple solution" to the technical art that is BJJ and ground fighting and really do not afford a response besides "all the way." Of course degrees of violence are necessary. IN that range of degrees of violence, the ability to close the deal all the way is necessary. A back ally assault is not a sport. Vunak knows one thing that we should all get familiar with: you fight like you train. If you can't kill and maim, then you can't fully protect yourself.

11-18-2007, 05:11 AM	#8 (permalink)
Joe Hubbard Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: London, England Posts: 66	I think it’s important to point out that the “biting” Vu is talking about is uninterrupted biting from a propitious position where the other guy cannot counter with his bite. The technique is meant to create space in order to neutralise the threat of being pinned down and killed by a bigger man. As Michael put it- only a part of a much bigger picture. I quite like the clip; there is nothing new in there, but Vu is Vu; you either like it or not. Personally I wouldn’t have thrown the stick away while grounded, but biting and gouging fosters good muscle memory for extreme encounters. I have trained with him and he is the first to clarify the context in which you would resort to biting. It is not a “catch-all” technique that he espouses in a cavalier way; it is a brutal solution for extreme circumstances. A quote from Vu: “Biting isn’t exactly healthy behaviour in this day and age, but if your wife and kid are being dragged into a van and you are pinned down by a bigger guy, you had better start biting.” (Paraphrased slightly) A quote from Hock: “If I’m in the process of dying then I am going to bite regardless of being stricken down with HIV; in ten years there might be a cure, but right here and now the only thing that might save me is biting! Two choices- die now or in ten years possibly. I am going for the ten year gamble.” Out Joe

11-19-2007, 06:28 AM	#10 (permalink)
Michael Wright Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 888	Its OK, you can drop the pop psychology. I've just read my post back and I agree it comes across as defensive, and shitty - so I apologise. I have never used Kina Mutai so its not a belief, its an understanding. You don't have to believe in every single thing you teach, but you should fully understand it, and I understand the use of Kina Mutai as a very small part of a larger strategy. My issue is that your comments were, in my opinion, based on a lack of understanding - which is why I challenged them, albeit not in the best way. I still maintain though Bri, further a to a few conversations on here, that you are far to quick to generalise, and criticise.

11-19-2007, 07:00 AM	#11 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,074	Especially when it comes to Paul Vunak.

11-19-2007, 12:44 PM	#12 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,415	I am quick to criticise. Good stuff can stand it. Quick to generalise? Not too sure what you mean there.

11-19-2007, 02:15 PM	#13 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,074	Well, Bri - Pauls' been putting out tapes since around 1980, and he's had a loyal (and large) following since several years before that. Looks like his stuff can stand it. Makes me wonder why, after 30 or so years of "standing the test of time," you're still so quick to criticise him and his material.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

11-19-2007, 04:07 PM	#15 (permalink)
Mike Brewer Moderate Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,074	Like I said: Paul's been teaching world class material since the mid seventies and has been putting out videos since around 1980. I don't think Bri is making a dent. On the other hand, who's heard of Thai Bri's material?