JKD and Korean martial arts

[Happy Cat]

Sorry Mike, but it does exist. I was looking at an original 1971 Oakland JKD curriculum just last week. Part of the confusion here may be the fact that different things were taught in Oakland, even in 1971, than were taught in LA.

Glad to hear of your HW lineage. I have been training in the Oakland school, and have not had the benefit of studying under LA. It would be great to compare notes some time. But my sense is that the JFGF that you know is an early form of Oakland JKD. JFGF may be vary different than LA JKD, but Oakland less so.

From what I have seen of HW, he likes the longer range. In OJKD, as it has evolved in my lineage, there is more of an emphasis on the close range, and thee is still a lot of Wing Chung influance.

[Michael Wright]

OK now I see where you are coming from. Yes I do know that until his unfortunate death in 1972, James Yimm Lee was kept up to date with how the art of JFGF was progressing. I understand.

My point, and I will be frank my friend it really matters not, is that the art James Yimm Lee taught even beyond Bruce Lee's move to LA, was JFGF. James Yimm Lee and Guro Inosanto were the only men who received a grade in JFGF equal to that of Bruce Lee, but the only person who received rank to teach Jeet Kune Do was Guro Inosanto.

You know Happy Cat I am way past caring about any of this, I think as you and I discussed before I don't even use the name JKD anymore. But I guess when I see two people getting tangled up in a historical argument I just pitch in what I know.

The bottom line to all of this I guess is that Jujujason and I, as students of Mr Inosanto, run with what we have been told. You run with your knowledge from Mr Williams and his students. The shame is the bickering, of which I have been party to before. It would be cool if we could all just get in a room and do some good training - which I think ALL sides agree was one of the founding beliefs of all the men we talk about and respect.

[Happy Cat]

By the By: The title of the Oakland curruculum is: Jeet Kune Do: Karate

The term Karate was used because it was a word that was known to Americans, not because Karate formed any part of it.

The same with the words Kick Boxing in LA. Kick Boxing was a name that was used becauce people in LA had heard of kick boxing (acording to the Wednsday night Group), not because it was part of what was being taught. I would like to see the LA document you refer to, but from your description, it sounds like Sifu Dan was already taking his JKD doun a road that was far diferent to what was hapening on Oakland. I know my Sifu's view of this. It would be interesting to hear from HW or Al Novac to gain their perspective.

[Happy Cat]

Just to clarify, I have not studied with HW. I train with a diferent branch of the tree.

In my vier JKD is a puzzle. Bruce did not teach any two people the same thing. I think part of it was customizing it for each individual. But another part was that bruce did not want anyone to have it all. At least not while Bruce himself was on the world stage.

James Lee had a diferent aproach, and his methodology influenced Oakland down one path just as your sifu influenced LA.

IF these guys would get together we could work out some of the pieces. But that can not hapen. The philisophical and ego devide is too great.

So I will be an Oakland School "kid" who tries to remain open to the knowledge of the other two schools. Though I am less open to kali

[Michael Wright]

Sure, fair enough.

I tell you where I come out. I abandoned the name Jeet Kune Do some time ago. Never have three words generated such pointless debate, from all sides. I never met Bruce Lee, so I don’t personally know what he did and didn’t do, or say, or want. I have tried to pass on the understanding of events given to me by Mr Inosanto and others who were there, but in the end that just turns into a “my dad knows more than your dad” debate.

So as far as I’m concerned, if there is a group of guys out there whose main purpose is to insist that they own JKD – then they can have it, they are welcome to it. I study and teach Inosanto Martial Arts, and I am extremely proud to do so. I look at the teachers, artists, athletes, fighters and students in the Inosanto family and I realise that it doesn’t matter jack shit what you call it, I just know this is where I want to be.

You follow your path sir, call it whatever you will, and good luck to you.

[Happy Cat]

Inosanto Martial Arts is a good name. As you know from my previous posts I am strugaling to find name for the art that I know. It is JKD, but JKD is such a big unbrella now that the name means diferent things to diferent people.

Oakland JKD is a possability, but even diferent branches of oakland have diferent interpretations. Origonal JKD is not good, because it sugests stagnation, while our art has evolved. And as we sugested above, there may have been more than one "origonal." Just Gung Fu works for me, but that name hides more than it reveals.

[fenwick99]

Since you gentlemen are familiar with Howard Williams, can you tell me if it's true that Sifu Williams's right lead travels at 110 mph, and can he sidekick a large man back 15 feet? Also, he was planning to make some videos a few years back; what happened?
Thanks.

[Liberty]

I’m back. Happy belated New Year to all. Greece has got to be one of the most beautiful places on the planet! And the Pankration training and competition is by far the best I have yet engaged in! Will post some clips of me whipping some butt Pankration style in some very grueling matches as soon as they send me my copy! In the meantime, I was catching up on the site here and thought I’d share my two cents.

“Yes of course. Chuck Norris influenced bruce to kick high. Jhoon Rhee taught bruce to break a hanging board and to perform the spinning hook kick. Ji Han Jae taught Bruce the basic hapkido takedown. Bruce was influenced by Korean arts” – Akia

Jesse Glover, Bruce Lee’s first American student (1959-1963), claims in his book, “Bruce Lee: Between Wing Chun and Jeet Kune Do” that one evening, during the time Glover studied with Lee, he and Lee attended a Karate demo put on by Shtokan’s Hidetaka Nishiyama. That Lee was so impressed with Nishiyama’s control over his high kicks that he (Lee) went over afterwards and the two men [Lee and Nishiyama] spoke at length about the subject.

“The name Jeet Kune Do was not even conceived until 1967 in Los Angeles, three years after Bruce and James Yimm Lee formulated the content of the Oakland teaching outline” – Michael Wright

“Jeet Kune Do… started in around 1965” – Bruce Lee (clip below at 2:24)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4CVTq44icg

“Origonal JKD is not good, because it sugests stagnation, while our art has evolved” – Happy Cat

“If it is their inclination, students are encouraged to study other martial arts and add their own personal developments once they have the experience and intellectual sophistication to do so. Nevertheless, we simply want JFJKD teachers to concentrate and focus on JFJKD, that is Bruce Lee's (TM) personal expression in the martial arts, when they claim to teach it. In this way, JFJKD can be spread out in a much more consistent way with less confusion” -Ted Wong

http://www.totallyjkd.com/tw_article...velopments.php

[Happy Cat]

Fenwick,

Those who trained with him say that HW's side kick was second in power only to Bruce's.

HW has made a DVD which he was happy to sell to me. You can contact him at: HWJKD@aol.com. My take on him is that he likes his privacy, so do not contact him unless you are prepared to buy the DVD.

And Mike, some could read your description of the history to suggest that JKD was the joint creation of Bruce and Sifu Dan. As you probably are well aware, most JKD historians credit Bruce and secondarily James Lee for the development of JKD.

OF course many of us in the Oakland school believe that James had a much larger influence that he has been generally credited with. Part of the reason for this is James’s early death, which left the LA school a free hand in writing the history as it saw it. The fact that you say that the early LA curriculum included Kali really says a lot to me.

I know that all of this is divisive, and it is not my intention to perpetuate an argument. I come from an Oakland student's perspective, and am always willing to learn more. When I have more time on my hands I will PM you and we can perhaps share views on the art and its history.

As I have said before, I believe that each branch of the tree may have a separate piece of the puzzle. I think that those who do not see a puzzle do not understand the nature of JKD.

[Happy Cat]

Liberty,

To clarify, I was saying that the term "Origonal JKD" is not a good term for the branch of JKD that I am studying, because what I am studying is evolving. Some may be studying a JKD which has not evolved since 1973, in in their case "origonal" may be an aptly descriptive term.

[Happy Cat]

Liberty,

In regard to the TKD high kicks, Bruce usualy limited his high kicks to the movies and demos. High kicks look good, and Bruce was a showman. But in terms of JKD, Bruce thought that Kicking a man in the head made as much sence as punching him in the foot.

Not that such a kick was forbiden in JKD, nothing is forbiden. (sorry, no spell check)

[Michael Wright]

To re-iterate my last post, I'm way past caring guys. I don't even use the name anymore, I have my own path. You guys follow yours and good luck to you.

Over and Out.

[Liberty]

Originally Posted by Happy Cat

Liberty,

To clarify, I was saying that the term "Origonal JKD" is not a good term for the branch of JKD that I am studying, because what I am studying is evolving. Some may be studying a JKD which has not evolved since 1973, in in their case "origonal" may be an aptly descriptive term.

What is Origonal? Is that like Oregano, the spice? Just messin. None of this matters, really. I've taken the attitude that, to me, we're just guys hanging out here every so often, shootin the sh*t when we're not training, or what have you. So, I kinda felt that's where you were coming from as well, so, no sweat. Peace.

[Happy Cat]

Liberty, thanks for the links.

The history maters if you are into it, and does not mater if you are not. Most people probably want to learn something that will be of benefit to them personaly, and do not care about the rest.

I am interested in the history fo the sake of learning the history. But I also feel that there is more depth to Bruce and James Lee than can be seen on the surface. By exploring those depth we may come closer to an understanding of the art. I personaly feel that this has greatly benefited me. But I understand if others have little interest.

[Liberty]

Originally Posted by Happy Cat

Liberty, thanks for the links.

The history maters if you are into it, and does not mater if you are not. Most people probably want to learn something that will be of benefit to them personaly, and do not care about the rest.

I am interested in the history fo the sake of learning the history. But I also feel that there is more depth to Bruce and James Lee than can be seen on the surface. By exploring those depth we may come closer to an understanding of the art. I personaly feel that this has greatly benefited me. But I understand if others have little interest.

On that note, are you familiar with that training device Herb Johnson (rip) was developing for Lee near the time of Lee's death? The one that would come at a person from consistently unpredicatable angles? Saw an article on it somewhere, with diagrams, but lost track of it.