The Ultimate in Martial Arts

KenJeet · 03-28-2001, 07:40 PM

I am currently a 1st Rank (Blue w. Gold) student of Dwight Woods in Miami. I was wondering if someone could help me with some of the terminology on my curriculum sheets. At the 1st Rank level we go over 7 different Jab, Cross Counters and they are written in the curriculum sheet as follows:

1) Shoulder Roll
2) Bob & Weave
3) Shoulder Stop (Jeet Sao)
4) Outside Parry with Cross (Woang Pak)
5) Split Entry High
6) Split Entry Low
7) Outside Circular Parry (Huen Sao)

My questions are the following:

1) Is Woang Pak the translation for Outside Parry with Cross like it is written on my curriculum sheet or does it just mean parry? Also, how is it executed? I know that you first catch the lead jab but then do you do an outward parry with your lead hand and then throw the cross or do you parry inward with your rear hand as you simultaneously throw a lead jab?

2) Does Huen Sao mean Outside Circular Parry as it is written in my curriculum sheet or does it mean circular parry and it can be performed inward or outward?

3) Can someone help me translate the following two trapping combinations into english?

a) pak da chun chuie to bong sao to lop da qua chuie.

b) pak da chun chuie to loy pak da chun chuie.

Thanks in advance for all of your help. I really appreciate it. When they say that Jeet Kune Do is an art that requires a lot of homework, they are not kidding.

sikal · 03-28-2001, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KenJeet
I am currently a 1st Rank (Blue w. Gold) student of Dwight Woods in Miami. I was wondering if someone could help me with some of the terminology on my curriculum sheets. At the 1st Rank level we go over 7 different Jab, Cross Counters and they are written in the curriculum sheet as follows:

1) Shoulder Roll
2) Bob & Weave
3) Shoulder Stop (Jeet Sao)
4) Outside Parry with Cross (Woang Pak)
5) Split Entry High
6) Split Entry Low
7) Outside Circular Parry (Huen Sao)

Well, I would first suggest asking your instructor. However ... I'll answer what I can.

Quote:

My questions are the following:

1) Is Woang Pak the translation for Outside Parry with Cross like it is written on my curriculum sheet or does it just mean parry? Also, how is it executed? I know that you first catch the lead jab but then do you do an outward parry with your lead hand and then throw the cross or do you parry inward with your rear hand as you simultaneously throw a lead jab?

This one I'm not sure of.

Quote:

2) Does Huen Sao mean Outside Circular Parry as it is written in my curriculum sheet or does it mean circular parry and it can be performed inward or outward?

I've always been told that Huen Sao is "small disengagement" ... However, this can be used as a circular parry and it can be done inward or outward. It also means that it can be used to release from a grab.

Quote:

3) Can someone help me translate the following two trapping combinations into english?

a) pak da chun chuie to bong sao to lop da qua chuie.

b) pak da chun chuie to loy pak da chun chuie.

Well, this terminology is a little different than what I'm familiar with so I'm not 100% sure of my translation ... but here's my semi-educated guess:

a) A slapping parry with a center-line punch. He parries, do a bong sao (elbow roll? ... not quite sure how to translate this into english ... I just know what it is physically) with your punching hand and do a lap sao (pulling hand) with your other hand.

b) A slapping parry with a center-line punch. He parries, use your non-punching hand to slap to the inside of his parrying hand and continue with your center-line punch.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Regards, Mike

athom · 03-29-2001, 10:14 PM

I'm a student and an instructor at the Inosanto Academy so I'm pretty familiar with this stuff.
In the cross series (or "1-2 series") the (gnoy) woang pak is merely the parry. It's supposed to be done with the lead hand. The question of WHEN you punch, during or after the parry, is up to you and your instructor. If you parry with your rear hand the technique would be different and it would be called loy woang pak.

gnoy- outside
loy- inside
woang pak- slap parry
huen sao- circling hand parry
chun chuie- verticle fist
pak- slap
da- hit
qua chuie- backfist

Hope this helps.

KenJeet · 03-30-2001, 09:58 AM

Awesome!!! Thanks a lot for your help guys I really appreciate it.

HungryWolf21 · 03-30-2001, 12:29 PM

This should help.

www.martialkoncepts.com

Look at the training notebook.

KenJeet · 04-02-2001, 10:32 AM

Athom,

Being that you are an instructor at the Inosanto Academy, by any chance would you happen to have a complete listing of all of the terminology in Jun Fan Gung Fu/Jeet Kune Do and Filipino Kali that you possibly use in your teaching or training? Also, do full instructors under Dan Inosanto that are a part of the Inosanto International Martial Arts Instructor Association all pretty much have to follow a specific progression and curriculum set out by Dan Inosanto as the minimum requirements for evaluation in Jun Fan and Kali?

Thank you for your help.

likuid · 04-02-2001, 04:18 PM

I'd like to make a small addition to the translation of 'A' and 'B'.

The actions are exactly what Sikal said. The significant difference between the two drills however, is the way the feeder parrys the pak da. In drill 'A', the feeder must cross the centerline when parrying in order for you to have to use a bong soa. In drill 'B' however, which is also know as a double pak soa, the feeder does not cross centerline when parrying your original pak da, that is why his parrying hand is available for the second pak da.

Does that make sense? Please let me know...I tried to make it as brief as possible.

Btw, Sikal, good work in describing those, you're right, it's one of those things that you know how to do...but hard to put into words beyond the terminology. I wouldn't have know where to start...

athom · 04-02-2001, 04:56 PM

Hey Kenjeet,
As far as terminology goes I do have several handouts given out by Guro pertaining to JKD and FMA.
As far as requirements and class structure is concerned Guro dosen't follow any type of set pattern nor does he ask his instructors to do so. He stresses that knowledge of a series of techniques isn't as important as possesing good form. For instance, you may not remember the fourth entry in the Loy Da Series but that's not as important as having proper body mechanics. Hope that answers your question.

KenJeet · 04-03-2001, 10:59 AM

Athom,

If it is not too much to ask, is there any way that I would be able to get a hold of those handouts. You see, my goal is to have a school in a couple of years and I am a real buff for specifics. I try to get as much detail as I can from my instructors so that once I open my school I will be able to pass it on effectively to my students. I would really appreciate your help. Those handouts would be a great asset to my training. Thank you.

JKDFIGHTER · 04-03-2001, 04:19 PM

Kenjeet,

You should really go to Dwight and ask him for any handouts that you may want or need. He has them. Always go the route of proper protocol first. If he says, "Just get 'em off the internet", fine, but at least you asked your instructor first.
Many times when we are given those handouts we are told that these are for us and our family, not to be indiscriminantly given out on the net.

Just some advice from another instructor.

KenJeet · 04-03-2001, 06:17 PM

JKDFighter,

I am in no way asking Athom to post the handouts on the WEb. I was thinking that perhaps he could scan them and email them to me or something. I meen no harm by this request, as I am part of the Inosanto lineage family. I just want it for my personal development and for that of my future students. I do not intend to gain or profit from this request. I am just doing my research.

JKDFIGHTER · 04-04-2001, 12:05 AM

Kenjeet,

No problem, I meant nothing either other than the fact that your instructor would probably appreciate you asking him and in the process not taking a chance on breaching any student/teacher protocol. I know that I would definately appreciate it.

athom · 04-04-2001, 02:50 PM

Now we're getting into a very weird area. Let me start by saying I see both sides of the issue.
The instructors handbooks are given out to instructors only that is true. At no point has Guro or Simo Paula said that the information is strictly for myself and my family. On the contrary, as an instructor my job is to pass on the information I have been given to educate my students. Kenjeet's thirst for knowledge is admirable. For an instructor to deny him any answers he may ask is just plain sad. Where's the logic?
On the other hand, I am not Kenjeet's instructor. Dwight Woods is. Being that I don't personally know Dwight I would be hesitant to offend him in any way. Kenjeet, check with your instructor first and let me know how it goes.

JKDFIGHTER · 04-04-2001, 04:40 PM

Yes, to educate YOUR students, not the internet community.

BTW Athom, I sent you a private message, let me know if you didn't get it.

03-30-2001, 12:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
HungryWolf21 Novice Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 98 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	This should help. www.martialkoncepts.com Look at the training notebook. __________________ [img]http://[/img] "When one is deluded, one must rely on sifu; when one is enlightened, one relies on the correct way." -Buddhist Saying "Don't you know it's not easy When you gotta walk upon that line." -INXS -"What You Need"

04-04-2001, 12:05 AM	#12 (permalink)
JKDFIGHTER Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 75 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Kenjeet, No problem, I meant nothing either other than the fact that your instructor would probably appreciate you asking him and in the process not taking a chance on breaching any student/teacher protocol. I know that I would definately appreciate it. Last edited by JKDFIGHTER; 04-04-2001 at 10:03 PM.

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03-28-2001, 07:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
KenJeet Novice Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Miami, FL. Posts: 108 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I am currently a 1st Rank (Blue w. Gold) student of Dwight Woods in Miami. I was wondering if someone could help me with some of the terminology on my curriculum sheets. At the 1st Rank level we go over 7 different Jab, Cross Counters and they are written in the curriculum sheet as follows: 1) Shoulder Roll 2) Bob & Weave 3) Shoulder Stop (Jeet Sao) 4) Outside Parry with Cross (Woang Pak) 5) Split Entry High 6) Split Entry Low 7) Outside Circular Parry (Huen Sao) My questions are the following: 1) Is Woang Pak the translation for Outside Parry with Cross like it is written on my curriculum sheet or does it just mean parry? Also, how is it executed? I know that you first catch the lead jab but then do you do an outward parry with your lead hand and then throw the cross or do you parry inward with your rear hand as you simultaneously throw a lead jab? 2) Does Huen Sao mean Outside Circular Parry as it is written in my curriculum sheet or does it mean circular parry and it can be performed inward or outward? 3) Can someone help me translate the following two trapping combinations into english? a) pak da chun chuie to bong sao to lop da qua chuie. b) pak da chun chuie to loy pak da chun chuie. Thanks in advance for all of your help. I really appreciate it. When they say that Jeet Kune Do is an art that requires a lot of homework, they are not kidding.

03-29-2001, 10:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
athom Novice Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 26 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'm a student and an instructor at the Inosanto Academy so I'm pretty familiar with this stuff. In the cross series (or "1-2 series") the (gnoy) woang pak is merely the parry. It's supposed to be done with the lead hand. The question of WHEN you punch, during or after the parry, is up to you and your instructor. If you parry with your rear hand the technique would be different and it would be called loy woang pak. gnoy- outside loy- inside woang pak- slap parry huen sao- circling hand parry chun chuie- verticle fist pak- slap da- hit qua chuie- backfist Hope this helps.

03-30-2001, 09:58 AM	#4 (permalink)
KenJeet Novice Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Miami, FL. Posts: 108 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Awesome!!! Thanks a lot for your help guys I really appreciate it.

04-02-2001, 10:32 AM	#6 (permalink)
KenJeet Novice Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Miami, FL. Posts: 108 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Athom, Being that you are an instructor at the Inosanto Academy, by any chance would you happen to have a complete listing of all of the terminology in Jun Fan Gung Fu/Jeet Kune Do and Filipino Kali that you possibly use in your teaching or training? Also, do full instructors under Dan Inosanto that are a part of the Inosanto International Martial Arts Instructor Association all pretty much have to follow a specific progression and curriculum set out by Dan Inosanto as the minimum requirements for evaluation in Jun Fan and Kali? Thank you for your help.

04-02-2001, 04:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
likuid Novice Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: new jersey Posts: 99 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'd like to make a small addition to the translation of 'A' and 'B'. The actions are exactly what Sikal said. The significant difference between the two drills however, is the way the feeder parrys the pak da. In drill 'A', the feeder must cross the centerline when parrying in order for you to have to use a bong soa. In drill 'B' however, which is also know as a double pak soa, the feeder does not cross centerline when parrying your original pak da, that is why his parrying hand is available for the second pak da. Does that make sense? Please let me know...I tried to make it as brief as possible. Btw, Sikal, good work in describing those, you're right, it's one of those things that you know how to do...but hard to put into words beyond the terminology. I wouldn't have know where to start...

04-02-2001, 04:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
athom Novice Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 26 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey Kenjeet, As far as terminology goes I do have several handouts given out by Guro pertaining to JKD and FMA. As far as requirements and class structure is concerned Guro dosen't follow any type of set pattern nor does he ask his instructors to do so. He stresses that knowledge of a series of techniques isn't as important as possesing good form. For instance, you may not remember the fourth entry in the Loy Da Series but that's not as important as having proper body mechanics. Hope that answers your question.

04-03-2001, 10:59 AM	#9 (permalink)
KenJeet Novice Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Miami, FL. Posts: 108 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Athom, If it is not too much to ask, is there any way that I would be able to get a hold of those handouts. You see, my goal is to have a school in a couple of years and I am a real buff for specifics. I try to get as much detail as I can from my instructors so that once I open my school I will be able to pass it on effectively to my students. I would really appreciate your help. Those handouts would be a great asset to my training. Thank you.

04-03-2001, 04:19 PM	#10 (permalink)
JKDFIGHTER Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 75 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Kenjeet, You should really go to Dwight and ask him for any handouts that you may want or need. He has them. Always go the route of proper protocol first. If he says, "Just get 'em off the internet", fine, but at least you asked your instructor first. Many times when we are given those handouts we are told that these are for us and our family, not to be indiscriminantly given out on the net. Just some advice from another instructor.

04-03-2001, 06:17 PM	#11 (permalink)
KenJeet Novice Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Miami, FL. Posts: 108 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	JKDFighter, I am in no way asking Athom to post the handouts on the WEb. I was thinking that perhaps he could scan them and email them to me or something. I meen no harm by this request, as I am part of the Inosanto lineage family. I just want it for my personal development and for that of my future students. I do not intend to gain or profit from this request. I am just doing my research.

04-04-2001, 02:50 PM	#13 (permalink)
athom Novice Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 26 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Now we're getting into a very weird area. Let me start by saying I see both sides of the issue. The instructors handbooks are given out to instructors only that is true. At no point has Guro or Simo Paula said that the information is strictly for myself and my family. On the contrary, as an instructor my job is to pass on the information I have been given to educate my students. Kenjeet's thirst for knowledge is admirable. For an instructor to deny him any answers he may ask is just plain sad. Where's the logic? On the other hand, I am not Kenjeet's instructor. Dwight Woods is. Being that I don't personally know Dwight I would be hesitant to offend him in any way. Kenjeet, check with your instructor first and let me know how it goes.

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04-04-2001, 04:40 PM	#14 (permalink)
JKDFIGHTER Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 75 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes, to educate YOUR students, not the internet community. BTW Athom, I sent you a private message, let me know if you didn't get it.