Anyone Practiced This Defense?

[Motion]

If you've practice this defense technique how effective was it for you?

YouTube Video

[Michael Wright]

Its just the basic SBG crazy monkey position, its quite a popular teaching tool now.

Its not my cup of tea personally, when I box I don't spend my time wrapping my hands around my head in an elaborate attempt to defend a jab, or anything else for that matter. When I box, my hands are hitting my opponent as many times as they possibly can, that is how you win bouts.

As my coach says, you don't put on gloves to block punches.

[Ghost]

This kind of defense doesnt leave you with much chance to answer his attack, far better to parry his punch and actually have a clearer shot of hitting. Its ok though, another bit of defense you can add it.
My advice is it try it in sparring and see if it works for you.

Happy times.

[Mike Brewer]

I'm sure someone from SBG will be along directly to refute all this advice, but I agree with what's been said thus far. This is a defensive position. Can you learn to throw offense from it? Yeah, sure. But why? It answers a question nobody asked. Boxers have a great way to defend against punches, and you see it working all the time against world class opposition. Head movement, footwork, and well-timed/placed counters will do a lot more for fighting effectiveness than turtling up ever will. What's more, they'll actually help you win the fight on offense as well. If you want to get really tricky against bare knuckle (streetfighting) opponents, then you can raise the hands a little and learn to put an elbow in the way now and again. See Paul Vunak for a demonstration.

The "Crazy Monkey," apart from being a totally ridiculous name for anything, may be cool, and hell, it may even work for those who do it. But why be different just to be different? Why bother learning a whole new delivery system, offense, and defense just to cater to some trendy on guard stance when you could just as easily learn the basics of regular old boxing anywhere?

[Motion]

Here's an image of Rampage Jackson using this defense.

[fire cobra]

I agree totally with everything said so far and will add that Muay Thai have the same (or similar) defence BUT the idea is to cover/shield with the arm while at the same time hitting with one of the other 6 weapons available to hit with,as a boxing only defence its way down the list of efficiency after leading off,anticipation,evasion and hit,parrie and hit etc,maybe good for when cornered and to gain time to compose etc,but never a tactic for in the centre of the ring imho.

[Michael Wright]

To pitch in with the flip side...

In the SBG concept as I understand it, the crazy monkey position is part of a Boxing program that is designed to be non-attributes based. They want someone to walk into their gyms, young or old, and be able to walk out with fundementals that aren't exclusive to athletes with 10 years of training. They see the crazy monkey position as a simple base that anyone can learn to defend themselves against punches coming in from a range of angles.

I applaud anyone who tries to bring martial arts to the every day person, people who really need it, and strip away techniques that are unrealistic to learn given the constraints of natural ability. As I say, not my personal cup of tea and not convinced it is a great option for the ring, but I don't believe that is the motivation behind the technique.

Not an expert, could be wrong, I'm sure Bodhi will be along promptly....

[fire cobra]

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

To pitch in with the flip side...

In the SBG concept as I understand it, the crazy monkey position is part of a Boxing program that is designed to be non-attributes based. They want someone to walk into their gyms, young or old, and be able to walk out with fundementals that aren't exclusive to athletes with 10 years of training. They see the crazy monkey position as a simple base that anyone can learn to defend themselves against punches coming in from a range of angles.

I applaud anyone who tries to bring martial arts to the every day person, people who really need it, and strip away techniques that are unrealistic to learn given the constraints of natural ability. As I say, not my personal cup of tea and not convinced it is a great option for the ring, but I don't believe that is the motivation behind the technique.

Not an expert, could be wrong, I'm sure Bodhi will be along promptly....

I like the SBG training methology,but i wouldnt like to teach that paticular way of covering against jabs/crosses etc to a smaller person eg a flyweight against a heavyweight,as part of a overall game it has its uses,but more suited to Muay Thai/MMA than boxing i think.

[Mike Brewer]

That may be, Michael. It makes more sense that way. However, I'm sure you and I share similar views about anything that claims to be "non-attribute based." That's a sales pitch, plain and simple. Just because the fat, old, and out of shape can do it in the gym doesn't mean they don't need to work on the fat and out of shape parts if they want it to work well under pressure. Tossing out techniques that claim to work without requiring any athleticism or attributes is like selling diet pills that don't require you to diet or exercise.

Based on Bodhi's view of fraudulent advertising, I would hope they don't stoop so low as to sell anything fight related as being "non-attribute based."

[Ghost]

This technique is from boxing and is used in boxing.
Its one technique of many, we dont need to over analyze it.
It works just fine. Its used fairly well in thai boxing as firecobra points out. The elbow spike application and turning the head in is more thai development of the technique where elbow spikes and so on are common.

[eXcessiveForce]

On occasion I use it or at least something like it. A bit more emphasis on using the elbow as a destruction.

I also use it on entries with people with longer reach than me. let's me get to a place where I actually can hit them.

[Michael Wright]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

I'm sure you and I share similar views about anything that claims to be "non-attribute based." That's a sales pitch, plain and simple.

To a large extent yes Mike, but to a certain extent no (and I'm talking in general terms now, away from SBG and crazy monkey).

I think it depends whether you are positioning your instruction as Combat Athletics, Self Protection, or just Recreational martial arts:

Anyone trying to sell Combat Athletics as non-attribute based is kidding themselves and their students, I fully agree. Recreational martial arts, if that is how you honestly position it to your students, can be sold on the basis that as long as they are having fun and getting a workout then don't worry how it turns out. Some people just want to bash pads and swing sticks, and couldn't care if in a technical, attribute or combat sense it means zero.

For me the most difficult, and also the most dangerous fine line, is Self Protection. If you read pretty much all of my posts on SP across this board, you will see that I always say that good self protection starts with being in shape and having a strong level of attributes (physical, mental and emotional). I do believe that to be the case for the majority, and have no time for all the magic tricks and short cuts people try to sell. However, I always give that agenda because I know that many of the people on here, especially the guys I am talking to in this thread, are experienced athletes and fighters from one arena or another.

The difficulty in SP is when you try to teach someone like my Mum. She is a small, slight lady in her late 50's with pretty much no fitness or athletic background at all. She works as a nurse in wards where sometimes things can get scary. When she asked to teach her some SP, I just knew that 99% of what I can do she never could, not to any real level of use. So what I taught her had to be, and was, non-attribute based. I simply had to work with what I had knowing my Mum was never going have a solid base of attributes for me to work with. So having gone through that experience, and doing the best I could with some specific concepts in my toolbox, I do believe it can exist.

Now some people would say "well I just think thats a waste of time, a small woman in her late 50's whats the point, it will never work". Well what the hell is the point of martial arts then if we can't teach someone like my Mum? She needs it a damn sight more than I do.

[Mike Brewer]

Good points all the way around. Well said.

[g-bells]

If you covered up like that, how are you going to see any leg kicks coming??

Let me state i'm not knocking it, just asking a question.

[eXcessiveForce]

all kicks come from the hips, so you should still be able to see them