eye gouges-training?

[Mike Brewer]

I've popped a lot of people in the eyeballs. I usually rake with a thumb in close, but I've actually reached right out and stabbed a guy in the eyeball with my pointer finger on one occasion. It was the most humane thing I could have done. He'd been knocked out cold already, and had gotten up for three more knockdowns by me. He kept getting up, and I was worried about rupturing something serious if I hit him ballistically again. He already had one eye swollen shut, so I reached out and poked him in the other eye. It ended the fight and kept me from giving the guy an aneurysm.

Anytime you knock someone out, you're giving them a concussion. It may be minor, but that's what's happening. In cases of people who like to brawl and have been knocked out before, you're giving them a repeated concussion. That can kill a guy. Eyeballs, on the other hand, are very hard to damage with things like fingers. They're too soft, and they have a tremendous level of give. I had a coat hanger whipped at me once, and it sunk right down into my eye socket and rolled around so the hook part was up behind my eyeball tugging on the inside of my forehead. It hurt like the beejeezus, but when I managed to get it out, there was nothing wrong. This was with my kid brother tugging on the other end.

Getting poked in the eyeball hurts, but you aren't going to pluck someone's eye out like in the movies. For the most part, it's just going to make them tuck their head down and turn away, which is awesome, because it gives you the chance to either run away or attack without worrying about counters.

[ttruscott]

1. Get those little stickers of coloured dots from the stationary store and put them around your house at various levels. When ever you pass one, stab / flick or rake it. Hurt your fingers, and toughen them up. Move the dots periodically.

2. Put two faces on a balloon with a felt pen. Blow it up and hang from a ceiling at eye height. When you see it, flick the eyes. It works best with a partner who can surrepticiously move the balloon around the house, behind doors, and corners so it is a bit of a surprise.

3. Old cqc training took an orange and cut it in half. Pad your partners eye up very well, put half the orange on his eye and practise indexing (say off an ear slap) then gouging all the way thru the orange. This would work good with your sparring dummy too. It gives the feel of really digging the thumb in.

The first two targeting drills teach you the length of your arm, targeting and instant strike, immediate action with no thought. Very useful.

There you go,have fun!

[Mike Brewer]

I had to laugh at the image of someone training with oranges strapped to his face!

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

I've popped a lot of people in the eyeballs. I usually rake with a thumb in close, but I've actually reached right out and stabbed a guy in the eyeball with my pointer finger on one occasion. It was the most humane thing I could have done. He'd been knocked out cold already, and had gotten up for three more knockdowns by me. He kept getting up, and I was worried about rupturing something serious if I hit him ballistically again. He already had one eye swollen shut, so I reached out and poked him in the other eye. It ended the fight and kept me from giving the guy an aneurysm.

Anytime you knock someone out, you're giving them a concussion. It may be minor, but that's what's happening. In cases of people who like to brawl and have been knocked out before, you're giving them a repeated concussion. That can kill a guy. Eyeballs, on the other hand, are very hard to damage with things like fingers. They're too soft, and they have a tremendous level of give. I had a coat hanger whipped at me once, and it sunk right down into my eye socket and rolled around so the hook part was up behind my eyeball tugging on the inside of my forehead. It hurt like the beejeezus, but when I managed to get it out, there was nothing wrong. This was with my kid brother tugging on the other end.

Getting poked in the eyeball hurts, but you aren't going to pluck someone's eye out like in the movies. For the most part, it's just going to make them tuck their head down and turn away, which is awesome, because it gives you the chance to either run away or attack without worrying about counters.

that made me cringe, sounds agonising. your eyesight is ok though?

I always thought the eye was quite delicate. Never had the need to poke anyone in the eye thankfully.

What was the fight over with the guy you had to poke in the eye?

[Mike Brewer]

Originally Posted by Ghost

that made me cringe, sounds agonising. your eyesight is ok though?

I always thought the eye was quite delicate. Never had the need to poke anyone in the eye thankfully.

What was the fight over with the guy you had to poke in the eye?

Yeah, my eye wasn't hurt at all. It sucked, and was painful as hell, but no lasting injuries. It did turn a pretty neat color of red for a few days, though.

The guy I knocked out and then poked in the eye was a bar fight in Arkansas. I was a bouncer at a couple of different clubs then. One guy named Scotty was getting pretty well set up by this chick, and I watched it unfold. She was flirting and coming on pretty strong, and about the time he patted her on the ass, her boyfriend came up and caught her. She started acting all indignant and said Scotty was coming on without any reason. It was horseshit, of course, but she asn't aboutto confess that she was the one who started it all. I threw them out before they got ramped up and made the announcement that anyone going outside to watch the fight would be staying out. Didn't want anyone to come back in and get the action going all over. So they went outside and the boyfriend lit this Scotty kid up something fierce. Knocked him flat and mounted him,smacking him in the face after he was out cold. I went out and pulled the guy off, and he took his girlfriend and wandered off. Scotty got up, obviously delirious, and came after me. I don't have any idea why. I hammered him in the head with a cross, and I think I busted the blood vessel under his eyebrow, because the punch sunk in and his eye bubbled up like an over-ripe plum almost immediately. He went down like a sack of potatoes, and I turned around to go inside and call an ambulance. I was sure the guy was injured. Before I got to the door, he's coming after me again. I tried talking him down, but he kept getting closer and closer. I grabbed him by the neck and tried to control him from the clinch, but he was still all over me, so I elbowed him across the temple and dropped him again. I didn't think it was a knockout shot, but with the head trauma the guy had already sustained, who knows. I was worried about him, so I told one of the other guys who'd come out to go call an ambulance for this dumb bastard, and he came after me again! I didn't want to hit him, so I spun him around, got behind him, and choked him out standing. He went limp, and I hauled him out of the street and leaned him up against a pole so if he puked he wouldn't drown in it. I was almost back to the door, telling the observers that they weren't allowed back in when ol' Scotty gets up again and tells me he's going to kick my ass and we're not finished yet. I was at a loss. Freaking Energizer Bunny, this kid. The eye I'd punched was swollen shut by this point, and I was really afraid that hitting him again might kill him, so I just reached up with my first finger and poked him in the good eye. It was sort of comical. I didn't move fast or anything. He yelped and bent over covering his face, as people do, and finally someone I later discovered was his roommate showed up and carted him off. The roommate was yelling about coming back and shooting me later on, but I didn't have to worry. Apparently, enough time had passed that a cop was driving up and heard the whole thing. The cop waited by the front of the bar, and wouldn't you know it? Scotty comes DRIVING by in his pickup screaming "Rat-a-tat-tat!" The cop pulled him over and took him to jail and impounded his truck.

Interesting night, that one.

[Ghost]

bloody hell man, what was that guy on, is it possible he was on drugss, thats one hell of a beating to take and keep getting back up from. he must have been pretty motivated or high on something i guess. nutcase. at least it stopped the fight.
I always thought eye strikes were a lot more damaging than that.
Learnt something new today. I will be walking around poking people in the eye left right and center now

[Mike Brewer]

Just trim your nails, and they'll forgive you.

I think the guy was just really drunk and redneck tough. Judging by the people he hung around with, he may have been a University of Arkansas athlete of some sort. I know his name because everyone kept yelling "Scotty! Give it up, man!" or "Get him, Scotty!"

[migo]

Eyeballs, on the other hand, are very hard to damage with things like fingers. They're too soft, and they have a tremendous level of give. I had a coat hanger whipped at me once, and it sunk right down into my eye socket and rolled around so the hook part was up behind my eyeball tugging on the inside of my forehead. It hurt like the beejeezus, but when I managed to get it out, there was nothing wrong. This was with my kid brother tugging on the other end.

o_0

Not even a scratch? Pretty cool about the resiliency of the human body.

Are there anecdotes on the other end? I've actually only heard them (and my experience getting poked as well, though it wasn't even knuckle deep) along the same lines, that there wasn't any lasting damage. That would seem to suggest that a hard hit has more potential of damaging the eye by causing a detached retina.

[Mike Brewer]

I got thumbed in the eye pretty fiercely by Tom while we were shooting Vunak's Attributes 3 or 4 video. We were demonstrating some slow sparring in and out of various ranges, and Tom was supposed to tie me up, SIMULATE the thumbs in the eyes, take me down, and go for whatever on the ground. Well, those that have trained with Tom know that he is not generally known for his control. He got me by the neck and I stiffened up to let him work the tools, and he raked his thumbnail right across my eyeball. His nail slid right under my eyelid and GAWD did it hurt. I remember freezing in place and him going through the whole routine. He elbowed me (because my head came forward from the eye rake) and then popped me a couple times on the ground. I didn't feel any of that because my damned eyeball hurt so bad. I just kept thinking, "Don't show pain. You're on video and you don't want to do it a second time."

It made the final cut, and I don't know if it looked as bad as it felt, but it was awful.

The worst part about the coat hanger thing was that it mushed my eyeball downward so all I could see was a grayish, pinkish tinge like when a light hits your closed eyelids. I could feel the wire hook scraping the INSIDE of my forehead, and it creeped me right out. Hearing that metal on bone noise from inside my head is still one of the scariest things I've ever gone through. I was sure my eyeball had burst, and was happy as could be to see that it only broke a few capillaries.

[corwin137]

There's a lot of thoughts diminishing either the usefulness or um... "trainability" of eye gouges. Would suggest a couple things. First, that this idea, as all, relies on context in terms of its usefulness. For instance, knockouts are great. Sometimes getting to one though requires bridging and/or "softening" of one's "opponent", and I'd argue that eye gouges are sometimes a great means of doing so.

We do train them. Either by "indicating" the jab by placing a palm in front of BGs face, close enough that if we had pointed our fingers at him/her, it'd be a jab. Yes, I know, it's not perfect because we're not actually gouging out someone's eye with the jab. There's only one way to do that of course, and keeping training partners is rough enough. We've also indicated the gouge at clinch/close range by thumbing the eyebrow. Again subject to imperfection, and might be improved with goggles or somesuch, but a fairly sufficient means of maintaining the idea when working that range, focusing specifically on foul tactics and such.

[bassruttin]

I gouged a guy's eye out in high school once. This was far before I ever took any mma training (and I had a karate class for a few weeks when I was like, seven).

I was a freshman, and there was this guy that would steal my hat, and then play keep away with it, or if it wasn't a hat then a folder, etc. He'd play keep away for a few minutes then get right in my face, literally inches, and I guess dare me to do something.

Well, one day I did. I put my first two fingers inside the outer rim of the eye (near the eye socket) of his right eye, and then got him in kind of a headlock. I pushed my fingers in as deep as they could go, and then manage to put my thumb in. I tried my best to get my two fingers behind his eye, and then pull forward.

There was no flinching or blinking like people here say, since I guess he was expecting a punch. His eyes were locked on mine anyway, and he might have seen my arm swinging like in a roundhouse punch, but my hand went straight forward. After it happened, I got sent to juvy hall, and then a mental hospital for a brief while. It kinda ruined my freshman year.

[Joe Hubbard]

Oh yeah and what happened next, did you wtite the screen play for Steven Segal's first film while banged up? Please sapre me the troll!

[Mike Brewer]

Originally Posted by bassruttin

I gouged a guy's eye out in high school once. This was far before I ever took any mma training (and I had a karate class for a few weeks when I was like, seven).

I was a freshman, and there was this guy that would steal my hat, and then play keep away with it, or if it wasn't a hat then a folder, etc. He'd play keep away for a few minutes then get right in my face, literally inches, and I guess dare me to do something.

Well, one day I did. I put my first two fingers inside the outer rim of the eye (near the eye socket) of his right eye, and then got him in kind of a headlock. I pushed my fingers in as deep as they could go, and then manage to put my thumb in. I tried my best to get my two fingers behind his eye, and then pull forward.

There was no flinching or blinking like people here say, since I guess he was expecting a punch. His eyes were locked on mine anyway, and he might have seen my arm swinging like in a roundhouse punch, but my hand went straight forward. After it happened, I got sent to juvy hall, and then a mental hospital for a brief while. It kinda ruined my freshman year.

What's that smell? Anybody smell that? It smells like.... BULLSHIT.

[Joe Hubbard]

Yes Mike, I smelled it big time. The internet handle gave it away as well. The know Michael Wright also got a big whiff!

Out

Joe