eye gouges-training?

[TylerJamesMead]

what are some good drills or protective gear to use when practicing eye gouges i dont praticularly like goggles or shooting glasses as they fall off easily in grapling and end up gouging your own eyes

[Michael Wright]

i think kseer is back

[Ghost]

only do them on pads personally, eye stab that is, philli style. thats all though.
i think they are over rated and hard to pull off and not needed 99% of the time.
why would you do that to someone if you can knock them out.

[Mike Brewer]

If you're talking about long range eye jabs, they can be tougher to pull off but I've used them before. I like eye jabs because very often, it allows me to control the fight without having to cause traumatic brain injury. I'm not opposed to giving a guy a concussion if he has it coming, mind you, but a good slap on the eyeball (as opposed to a jab directly into it) can go a long, long way toward deflating a guy's ego. Nice quick pop on the eyeball, and he's standing there red-faced, teary eyed, looking very much like a crying idiot. And if he does attack, he's half-blind.

Likewise, from the clinch, it's a snap to rake a thumb across a guy's eye. I've done that on many more occasions than the long range eye jab, and it really does facilitate all of one's tools in the clinch. It creates a lot of immediate pain and fear, and the damage is of a sort that makes a lot of guys freeze in place while you beat on them. Just train it by raking the thumb across the eyebrow anytime your hand goes anywhere near the guy's neck.

[TylerJamesMead]

i agree about not using them standing when you can knock a guy out i use them in clinch frequently and on the ground i dont use them ad an end but as a setup idk it works for me -like to setup a choke or give me time to draw my weapon on the ground\

ive never really blinded anyoun in training or in a rel fight but i have made it alot herder for a person to see- eyes watering and cant keep them open- hard to see punches coming then

[Ghost]

hard to pull of on resisting opponent, a tightly closed eye and the basic reflex response usually means it fails it is easy with a willng sparing partner though.

if you have someone that knows how to fight in the clinch its a bad idea because your arm is coming into the center line, this is a bit of a disaster in the clinch as you are open to a lot of counters and you lose the base of support in the clinch. depends if your guy knows clinch or not.
however it does have its place.

[kingoftheforest]

A Bob is the best thing to practice on because you have a real human head target to practice. The best tactic I have seen is to slap your opponent on the side of the face and your thumb will fall right into the eye socket.

Eye gouges however are usually something that happens not something you go for in a fight. Raking someones face with an open hand from top to bottom might land you one. But the main point is that the open hand slap hits hard and the eye gouge is a secondary effect to the slap.

I practice eye gouges but don't aim for them it either happens or it doesn't. The practice is more for a reference point for your hand. If you train them you get more familiar with where to place the slaps and you get better at landing them as a secondary effect to the slap.

That's what I have found in my training and personal experience.

[Joe Hubbard]

Why would you want to do that to someone when you can knock them out?

Wow, is that really your strategy, to knock someone out? I suppose you use a bare knuckle fist as well. You cannot base your overall strategy on a knock out dude. If you achieve it, then great, but there are many who either can’t be knocked out or similarly, many who cannot knock someone out. Can you imagine the average woman being able to knock someone out? Bad strategy and closed fist techniques are bad tactically as primary tools.

As Mike pointed out, there are many platforms to launch an eye attack. I have personally delivered many eye jabs from a static pre-emptive natural posture and been successful every time. Even once, the eye jab alone finished the deal. I think what TylerJamesMead was looking for was a drill and some equipment where you could successfully implement a Thumb Gouge to the eyes whist ground fighting. I use a drill that Hock showed me called “The Rattle Snake.” This where Man A wears a pair of swimming goggles and Man B plays the part of the submission wrestler. Both guys start to grapple; Man A’s sole intention is to move for position to attack with a thumb gouge. Man B is just the submission stylist who can defend the thumb gouge, but can only use his wrestling skills to do so. Most of the time, the thumb gouger achieves his mission before the wrestler can submit him. It has to be a 3-5 second uninterrupted thumb gouge where you have an anchor or you are using the floor or a wall for leverage to achieve the uninterrupted gouge.

This is a great drill that you can add other tactics to- give it a try!

Out

Joe

[TylerJamesMead]

thanks joe thats wat i was lookn for
what kind of goggles do u use i have some airsofr cheap goggles when we really roll they slide off easily any suggestions?

[kingoftheforest]

Originally Posted by TylerJamesMead

thanks joe thats wat i was lookn for
what kind of goggles do u use i have some airsofr cheap goggles when we really roll they slide off easily any suggestions?

Military M44 goggles.

[Joe Hubbard]

Just standard swimming goggles from your local sports store.

Out

Joe

[Crutch]

Heres my 2cents,

Practicing eye gouges is dangerous and i dont recomend doing it or practicing it without a trained instructors supervision. Its a good way to get blind.


scotch tape a piece of paper to the side of a escrima stick and draw a face on the paper with a crayon.

bring some extra paper and the whole role of tape if you plan to play for awhile.

it should look like a flag hanging from the side of the pole if you made it correctly.

Dont Biu Gee the rattan or you'll jam your fingers.

Have your trainning parter hold it static and give you an auditory or visual queue and biu gee the paper. Then have him give you two or three different queues and try to induce some motor freeze.

When you master that then have your partner start to change elevations and move it through space.

Start slow, dont hyper extend your elbow practicing on paper as there isnt any resistance, do this over and over again for a few years.

Again get a qualified instructor to teach you.


When you get done with that go buy a FIST helmet.
FIST, INC.

I have one and recomend them.

Good luck.

Terry


JKD Concepts - Jeet Kune Do Concepts

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by Joe Hubbard

Why would you want to do that to someone when you can knock them out?

Wow, is that really your strategy, to knock someone out? I suppose you use a bare knuckle fist as well. You cannot base your overall strategy on a knock out dude. If you achieve it, then great, but there are many who either can’t be knocked out or similarly, many who cannot knock someone out. Can you imagine the average woman being able to knock someone out? Bad strategy and closed fist techniques are bad tactically as primary tools.

As Mike pointed out, there are many platforms to launch an eye attack. I have personally delivered many eye jabs from a static pre-emptive natural posture and been successful every time. Even once, the eye jab alone finished the deal. I think what TylerJamesMead was looking for was a drill and some equipment where you could successfully implement a Thumb Gouge to the eyes whist ground fighting. I use a drill that Hock showed me called “The Rattle Snake.” This where Man A wears a pair of swimming goggles and Man B plays the part of the submission wrestler. Both guys start to grapple; Man A’s sole intention is to move for position to attack with a thumb gouge. Man B is just the submission stylist who can defend the thumb gouge, but can only use his wrestling skills to do so. Most of the time, the thumb gouger achieves his mission before the wrestler can submit him. It has to be a 3-5 second uninterrupted thumb gouge where you have an anchor or you are using the floor or a wall for leverage to achieve the uninterrupted gouge.

This is a great drill that you can add other tactics to- give it a try!

Out

Joe

my point is that virtually no one will be in a fight that requires that level of violence.
Should you ever be in a fight then doing something more reasonable like going for a knockout is more sensible.
Why would you want to blind someone over what probably is nothing.

What would the consequences of blinding someone be? probably a lengthy prison spell.

I didnt say dont train it. i train it myself, im just pointing out its an extreme technque that escalates the fight enormously and is usually totally uncalled for.

[Joe Hubbard]

Saying that eye jabs, eye rakes and eye gouges blind people is like saying that an arm wrench will break someone's arm. These are cavalier misconceptions that are spread through the martial arts world like a cancer. Often, these misconceptions are passed on from instructor to student, neither who has ever been in a street altercation and the basis of their findings is the UFC rule book. It ranks up there with having to register your hands as a lethal weapon with the authorities.

An eye attack, whatever it is, is an insert to set up a finish. The finish you use will be situational and generally will fall in to one of these categories:

- Control & Restraint
- Disablement
- Unconciousness
- Death

You may wince that I mention death as an option, but as I mentioned earlier, everything is situational:

- Who is attacking you?
- What are the risks?
- When is this happening?
- Where is it taking place?
- Why is this happening?
- How will you problem solve this for survival?

What may happen if you are doing a Close Protection stint in South Africa will differ if you are fronted out in a night club in London.

Out

Joe

[Ghost]

you run the risk of damaging the persons sight though dont you.
lol i could say the same to you about setting up a "finish"
finishing moves exist on the nintendo.

you cant say no one has had a fight or their instructor doesnt know anything because they think sticking your finger in someones eye might blind them.
It doesnt mean theyve never had a fight, wild jump there.

I understand what you are saying though, you are saying that they are used to distract to set up other things.