What exactly is a "JKD punch"?

GQchris · 06-21-2008, 11:58 AM

I heard Bruce talk about this and mention that a JKD punch really hurts, not like any old regular punch. Can any of you hardcore JKD practitioners elaborate on what exactly is a JKD punch? Is it superior to a Boxing punch?

Tant01 · 06-21-2008, 07:13 PM

See "lead punch" and "falling step"

The "secret" to a powerful lead punch is good footwork...don't forget the torque provided by your hips and shoulders.

http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/8669/leadpunch.htm

**Michael Wright** · 06-22-2008, 07:09 AM

Its important to remember that when Bruce Lee used to speak of JKD, he was largely referring to his own, personal expression of the martial arts. Therefore what he may have meant is that a Bruce Lee punch really hurt, and I have no doubt that is true.

Guro Inosanto took many falls for Bruce Lee and sparred all out with him frequently. To this day he maintains that the level of power in Mr Lee’s punches was truly phenomenal. However, as Guro Dan always says time and time again, what worked for Bruce Lee won’t be the same as what works for you or I.

There are a number of punches, and punching nuances, that were expressed as part of JKD. As Tant rightly says, the most common one people relate to JKD is the Straight Lead, and it certainly has a number of elements that have to be carefully trained to achieve the full effect. The Straight Lead and the Whipping Lead were two punches that I majored on for years in my Jun Fan training, and I like both very much.

However in truth, the power generated by both is easily surpassed by my right cross from Boxing. Sure, the JKD leads can be more deceptive and easier to land, but then again so can my jab, lead hook or lead uppercut. At the end of the day I suppose its important to remember where most of the hand tools in JKD came from, and that is Western Boxing. I do appreciate that Bruce Lee adapted certain strikes to make very intelligent nuances that worked very well for him. I guess for the rest of us it’s a decision between focussing our time and energy on imitation, or simple effectiveness.

**kingoftheforest** · 06-22-2008, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tant01

See "lead punch" and "falling step"

The "secret" to a powerful lead punch is good footwork...don't forget the torque provided by your hips and shoulders.

BRUCE LEE'S LEAD PUNCH

Even though some people will tell you that no punch is anymore

magically delicious than any other Bruce was right on track to developing an internal type striking power with his JKD punch.

Tant hit the nail on the head, foot work is a major key in throwing a strike and Bruce managed to get the Tai Chi whip beginnings into his JKD punch. Not only does foot work play a huge role in generating power but the speed with which you punch.

Bruce didn't try to punch hard he tried to punch fast that is what generated a lot of his power as well.

**Michael Wright** · 06-22-2008, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

Even though some people will tell you that no punch is anymore

magically delicious than any other...

...one of those people, was Bruce Lee.

Tant01 · 06-22-2008, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

.....

...There are a number of punches, and punching nuances, that were expressed as part of JKD. As Tant rightly says, the most common one people relate to JKD is the Straight Lead, and it certainly has a number of elements that have to be carefully trained to achieve the full effect. ......

... I guess for the rest of us it’s a decision between focussing our time and energy on imitation, or simple effectiveness.

Sorry about the hackjob on your post MW. I'm not attempting to take anything out of context but to expand (just a bit) on the philosophy of JKD.

The hammer principle and NONTELEGRAPHIC punching methods are faster and more effective because they APPEAR to be out of nowhere!

While a rear cross (reverse punch) is very powerful, it is much harder to hide your intent with some tools than others.

In the end it is less about what works and more about making it your own...

**Michael Wright** · 06-22-2008, 01:46 PM

I hear you brother, and I'm genuinely not trying to rain on the parade of JKD, you know its been my life blood for many years. I guess I just want to give an honest answer to Chris's question about a JKD punch compared to a Boxing punch.

The Hammer principle and Non-Telegraphic motion are both found in Boxing, but yes they were developed upon by Mr Lee to make some very effective and unorthodox lead hand techniques. Of that I have no argument. To re-iterate a point in my post (which I know you didn't hack, but it was ommited from your quote) I like the JKD lead hand tools a lot. And, if I may say so, I'm not bad with them either

Mr Lee used to quote "To hear is to be lied to, to see is to be deceived, but to feel is to believe". For many years I have been hit, and hit well, and hit hard by some great people in JKD. No question there are some great hands in this arena. I guess all I can say is that since I have been sparring with amateur and professional boxers, I have been hit harder, faster, and ten times as much. Thats just what they do, and its what they do best, so it takes nothing away from JKD - but I wanted to answer the question honestly.

Tant01 · 06-22-2008, 02:18 PM

If I learned anything about boxing as a youngster it's that you don't stay pretty very long if you don't move your face out of the way. By extension you can't really hit someone in the face unless you learn to punch where it's going to be...

Boxing is (in my own humble opinion) the best way to learn WHEN to hit. It's all about time and distance (timing) and targets...

GQchris · 06-22-2008, 04:57 PM

Yeah boxing is Great, so is JKD. I guess I got caught up with the labels, just like how Bruce said not to.

**kingoftheforest** · 06-23-2008, 04:59 PM

Well Bruce wasn't caught up in labels I can't argue with that but he did find a way to throw a faster punch.

The faster the punch the harder it hit. There are many things Bruce could do that only Bruce could do just like Jackie Chan can do stuff nobody is going to be able to copy.

However if we look at the laws of physics they tell us that the faster an object moves the more power it will generate on impact. Bruce didn't so much throw a punch as he whipped his punches out. He also used the shortest distance from him to his target therefore creating the least amount of air friction which would slow the punch down.

The whip was the first tool humans broke the sound barrier with. Using this example to illustrate Bruce using the whipping motion to generate insane amounts of velocity (speed) in his strikes.

You still have to condition your body to be able to handle the speed which with the strike is thrown, but the conditioning is what helps build the speed.
Bruce didn't so much punch hard as he did fast to get his striking power.

The relaxed nature that Bruce explains is how he is able to generate his speed. By not tensing when the punch is thrown you allow yourself to build the speed into the punch, if you tense it causes friction as well as the muscles to pull against each other more than they do naturally in a relaxed position. To be able to relax and still throw the punch you have to use your hips to, once again, whip your body so that your arm is propelled forward by your whole body and not just the arm and shoulder.

Bruce explains all this in hi book "The Tao of Jeet Kun Do".

KOTF

Tant01 · 06-23-2008, 05:10 PM

Air friction, eh?

That doesn't REALLY become a problem until you get up around mach 1

LOL

**kingoftheforest** · 06-23-2008, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tant01

Air friction, eh?

That doesn't REALLY become a problem until you get up around mach 1

LOL

Swimmers shave all the hair off their bodies don't they?

It's like my grandpa said when you mother in law is drowning in the ocean go ahead and pee in it cause every little bit helps.

You got me on that Tant I was reading up on velocity and speed in physics and they were using planes as an example guess the air snuck in their on the thought train, kinda like a hobo.

Tant01 · 06-23-2008, 06:57 PM

Awe shucks... I got a good laugh out of it! Hydrodynamics are a whole other subject. Lets just say sound travels 344 m/s (meters per second) in dry air. In water it travels almost 1500 m/s.

EVERYONE knows BRUCE LEE could punch at the speed of light...

That's why he slowed everything down for the cameras and made all those silly noises!

**kingoftheforest** · 06-23-2008, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tant01

Awe shucks... I got a good laugh out of it! Hydrodynamics are a whole other subject. Lets just say sound travels 344 m/s (meters per second) in dry air. In water it travels almost 1500 m/s.

EVERYONE knows BRUCE LEE could punch at the speed of light...

That's why he slowed everything down for the cameras and made all those silly noises!

See you older timers know everything

That's why we keep you around.

Tant01 · 06-23-2008, 07:07 PM

WWWWWAaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhPA!

06-21-2008, 11:58 AM	#1 (permalink)
GQchris Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alameda County, California Posts: 759	What exactly is a "JKD punch"? I heard Bruce talk about this and mention that a JKD punch really hurts, not like any old regular punch. Can any of you hardcore JKD practitioners elaborate on what exactly is a JKD punch? Is it superior to a Boxing punch? __________________ Owner of a lonely heart.. much better than a owner of a broken heart...

06-21-2008, 07:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
Tant01 Humble Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern Ca. USA Posts: 4,817	See "lead punch" and "falling step" The "secret" to a powerful lead punch is good footwork...don't forget the torque provided by your hips and shoulders. http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/8669/leadpunch.htm __________________ "In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur." James Paterson

06-22-2008, 02:18 PM	#8 (permalink)
Tant01 Humble Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern Ca. USA Posts: 4,817	If I learned anything about boxing as a youngster it's that you don't stay pretty very long if you don't move your face out of the way. By extension you can't really hit someone in the face unless you learn to punch where it's going to be... Boxing is (in my own humble opinion) the best way to learn WHEN to hit. It's all about time and distance (timing) and targets... __________________ "In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur." James Paterson

06-22-2008, 04:57 PM	#9 (permalink)
GQchris Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alameda County, California Posts: 759	Yeah boxing is Great, so is JKD. I guess I got caught up with the labels, just like how Bruce said not to. __________________ Owner of a lonely heart.. much better than a owner of a broken heart...

06-23-2008, 04:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
kingoftheforest Premiere Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In the forest of course Posts: 1,281	It's not muscle it's speed. Well Bruce wasn't caught up in labels I can't argue with that but he did find a way to throw a faster punch. The faster the punch the harder it hit. There are many things Bruce could do that only Bruce could do just like Jackie Chan can do stuff nobody is going to be able to copy. However if we look at the laws of physics they tell us that the faster an object moves the more power it will generate on impact. Bruce didn't so much throw a punch as he whipped his punches out. He also used the shortest distance from him to his target therefore creating the least amount of air friction which would slow the punch down. The whip was the first tool humans broke the sound barrier with. Using this example to illustrate Bruce using the whipping motion to generate insane amounts of velocity (speed) in his strikes. You still have to condition your body to be able to handle the speed which with the strike is thrown, but the conditioning is what helps build the speed. Bruce didn't so much punch hard as he did fast to get his striking power. The relaxed nature that Bruce explains is how he is able to generate his speed. By not tensing when the punch is thrown you allow yourself to build the speed into the punch, if you tense it causes friction as well as the muscles to pull against each other more than they do naturally in a relaxed position. To be able to relax and still throw the punch you have to use your hips to, once again, whip your body so that your arm is propelled forward by your whole body and not just the arm and shoulder. Bruce explains all this in hi book "The Tao of Jeet Kun Do". KOTF __________________ The actions one takes are answered by consequences waiting at their conclusion. There are no exceptions. http://destructionscreation.deviantart.com/gallery/

06-22-2008, 07:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
Michael Wright Premiere Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 979	Its important to remember that when Bruce Lee used to speak of JKD, he was largely referring to his own, personal expression of the martial arts. Therefore what he may have meant is that a Bruce Lee punch really hurt, and I have no doubt that is true. Guro Inosanto took many falls for Bruce Lee and sparred all out with him frequently. To this day he maintains that the level of power in Mr Lee’s punches was truly phenomenal. However, as Guro Dan always says time and time again, what worked for Bruce Lee won’t be the same as what works for you or I. There are a number of punches, and punching nuances, that were expressed as part of JKD. As Tant rightly says, the most common one people relate to JKD is the Straight Lead, and it certainly has a number of elements that have to be carefully trained to achieve the full effect. The Straight Lead and the Whipping Lead were two punches that I majored on for years in my Jun Fan training, and I like both very much. However in truth, the power generated by both is easily surpassed by my right cross from Boxing. Sure, the JKD leads can be more deceptive and easier to land, but then again so can my jab, lead hook or lead uppercut. At the end of the day I suppose its important to remember where most of the hand tools in JKD came from, and that is Western Boxing. I do appreciate that Bruce Lee adapted certain strikes to make very intelligent nuances that worked very well for him. I guess for the rest of us it’s a decision between focussing our time and energy on imitation, or simple effectiveness.

06-22-2008, 01:46 PM	#7 (permalink)
Michael Wright Premiere Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 979	I hear you brother, and I'm genuinely not trying to rain on the parade of JKD, you know its been my life blood for many years. I guess I just want to give an honest answer to Chris's question about a JKD punch compared to a Boxing punch. The Hammer principle and Non-Telegraphic motion are both found in Boxing, but yes they were developed upon by Mr Lee to make some very effective and unorthodox lead hand techniques. Of that I have no argument. To re-iterate a point in my post (which I know you didn't hack, but it was ommited from your quote) I like the JKD lead hand tools a lot. And, if I may say so, I'm not bad with them either Mr Lee used to quote "To hear is to be lied to, to see is to be deceived, but to feel is to believe". For many years I have been hit, and hit well, and hit hard by some great people in JKD. No question there are some great hands in this arena. I guess all I can say is that since I have been sparring with amateur and professional boxers, I have been hit harder, faster, and ten times as much. Thats just what they do, and its what they do best, so it takes nothing away from JKD - but I wanted to answer the question honestly.

06-23-2008, 05:10 PM	#11 (permalink)
Tant01 Humble Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern Ca. USA Posts: 4,817	Air friction, eh? That doesn't REALLY become a problem until you get up around mach 1 LOL __________________ "In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur." James Paterson

06-23-2008, 06:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
Tant01 Humble Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern Ca. USA Posts: 4,817	Sound effects Awe shucks... I got a good laugh out of it! Hydrodynamics are a whole other subject. Lets just say sound travels 344 m/s (meters per second) in dry air. In water it travels almost 1500 m/s. EVERYONE knows BRUCE LEE could punch at the speed of light... That's why he slowed everything down for the cameras and made all those silly noises! __________________ "In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur." James Paterson

06-23-2008, 07:07 PM	#15 (permalink)
Tant01 Humble Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern Ca. USA Posts: 4,817	WWWWWAaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhPA! __________________ "In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur." James Paterson

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