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| Jeet Kune Do Discussion Forum Gain insight into Bruce Lee's concepts and philosophies of the martial arts. |
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#1 (permalink) |
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Another thread got me thinking about why I train and how I train in relation to why I started training in the first place.
We all know that martial arts is a changing, evolving thing. It's a journey, and all that other bullshit you hear philosophy types preaching. But here's the thing: At some point, it either works for you or it doesn't. Let me start off by saying I think that the whole "It's the journey that matters - not the destination" malarkey is one of the greatest cons ever foisted upon mankind. Of course the destination matters! That's why the journey even exists. You don't just set out for nowhere. You have an aim in mind. The journey certainly has its place, but the destination is critical as well. In real life, if you need groceries to feed your family, you go to the store. Now, driving to the store is important, but so is actually arriving there so you can do your shopping, right? Of course it is. So here's the thing. I started off in martial arts for the simplest of reasons. There was guy picking on my when I was a kid and I wanted more than anything to be able to beat him to a pulp in front of the whole school. I began training because I wanted to be able to fight. Now somewhere along the way, I got sidetracked. I bought into the idea that this was a lifelong journey, and a commitment to evolution that I'd have to stay way out in front of if I ever wanted to be "effective." I learned all the new stuff, I even learned how to say the new stuff in the native languageof wherever it happened to come from. I got to a point where none of it really had much to do with fighting at all anymore. It had to do with training, because I liked training and I liked the people I trained with. Nothing wrong with that - so long as one is honest enough to call it what it is. The simple fact is, everything I really needed to know about fighting, I learned years ago. The rest is fun. The core - the "need" that made up my original destination was arrived at over a decade ago. What I needed to learn about being an effective fighter could be summed up succinctly in five basic points. They are:
Now, when those five points were truly internalized, I'd reached the destination I set out to reach. The rest is just fun. So it occurs to me that martial arts really is like building your own house. The basics of the house are simple. Foundation, floor, walls, roof, windows, and doors. Keeps the rain off your head, and gives you a place to sleep. Done. The rest is what makes you more comfortable in your house. It's the pictures you put on the walls, or the particular furniture you like. It's what makes it really feel like your own. Now, occasionally, things change. You have to knock out a wall or add a room so your house is more functional, but in the mean time, you should still be able to live there. You don't torch the place and start all over ever time the wind blows. What this simple analogy has taught me is that it's okay to branch out and do other things. I don't have to spend every waking moment packing new shit into my house. I can go work on the yard, or I can take a vacation and go someplace else. In other words, so long as I have my house to go home to, I don't really have to worry. How does that apply to martial arts? Well, for me it means I don't have to spend ten hours a day in the gym and wrap my entire self-worth and identity up in the activity I like. I don't have to be "Mike the Martial Artist." I can be "Mike, the guy who does Martial Arts" and still have room in my life to be "Mike the Father," "Mike the Husband," "Mike the Citizen," and "Mike the guy who likes to read history books." I posted this whole big rant because I wanted to ask you guys a question, and if you've read this far, hopefully you'll understand what I'm looking for. Jeet Kune Do is about finding one's own personal "Truth." How much of that Truth do you have wrapped up in fighting, and how much of it comes from outside the martial arts? In other words, what do you guys do that defines you outside the martial arts? Maybe martial art makes up one of the walls in your house, or maybe it's the foundation. So what are the other walls made of? What other parts of your life make up "You, the person?" I know this is kind of "calorie dense" for a forum topic, but to those introspective few who take the time to respond, I thank you immensely in advance. |
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#2 (permalink) |
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Humble Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2004
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To me...
You can build your house from the materials at hand. Some folks use concrete and lumber, others may use straw and dung. It's what's inside that's most precious. The arts are more about making better people than better fighters. The corner stone of any GOOD house starts with a higher moral fabric. Weave your own tent the way you see fit. keep the door open. A locked door only invites the thief...
__________________
"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur." James Paterson |
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#4 (permalink) |
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Humble Moderator
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Well.... I started martial arts because it was an elective in HS and it was Co-Ed...
![]() Judo seemed like the perfect way to pick up a nice girl ![]()
__________________
"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur." James Paterson |
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#5 (permalink) | |
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Premiere Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Quote:
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The actions one takes are answered by consequences waiting at their conclusion. There are no exceptions. http://destructionscreation.deviantart.com/gallery/
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#6 (permalink) |
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Humble Moderator
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I thought it was all about "sweeping" them off their feet?
On a more serious note and closer to the topic intent I'd like to ad this... One of the local JKD students asked me a question one time about concealing his wicked intent... He had some issues and a "ghost" tattoo of the JKD symbol on the back of his neck. He wanted to know if he should buy a black gi because he was tired of pretending to be a nice guy. He had some kind of blood lust and wanted to really hurt someone instead of just playing in the dojo. After hearing his buddy tell him he needed professional help (psychologist) I suggested exploring his dark side. While the power of the darkness holds some attraction I told him I hope he comes to see the real power in SELF control. The goodness in folks will ideally prevail over the evil inclination but sometimes we need to feel the pain that wickedness holds to enjoy the benefits of being a real human(itarian) being.
__________________
"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur." James Paterson |
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#7 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Alameda County, California
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I got into Martial Arts because I got tired of being bullied by Cobra Kai.
Seriously, I got into Martial Arts because I want to be able to defend myself, and those that I love. Great post Mike. And I don't ever want to be that guy where his whole identity revolves around Martial Arts, or Sportbikes, his hobby fixing up cars, or picking up sluts, or clubbing all the time.
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Owner of a lonely heart.. much better than a owner of a broken heart... |
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#8 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 44
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Hey Mike ...I smell what you're cookin'. Martial Arts is a large part of my house by choice. But I'm also a dad, a husband, a traveller, a shooter, a music nut, an ancient history buff, a vessel of useless information, a self professed geek always looking forward to the next superhero movie, totally confounded by technology, a beer/scotch snob, a good friend, a conservative, and someone who truly believes that there really is more to life than being really, really, rediculously good looking.
My take on life: 10. Life is a series of never ending “try agains”…just never quit. 9. Never accept a job you hate…relentlessly find a career that you’ll love. 8. Go someplace you’ve never been, get lost and find your way home…just for fun. 7. Life is too short to drink cheap beer! 6. College teaches many things; however, survival is not one of them…that one is up to you. 5. Live for today…tomorrow will be here soon enough. 4. Try something new when the opportunity presents itself…it just might open your eyes. 3. If you’re afraid to look stupid, then you’ll never learn nothin’. 2. Never forget who your friends are…and never hesitate to buy the first round. 1. Always be a good training partner, but when it counts…WIN AT ALL COSTS! |
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#9 (permalink) |
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Moderate Moderator
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If I could have repped you 10 times for that one I would have.
Part of this thread is to show how reflexively some people deal with ideas and people. In most cases when people disagree, there's a back and forth. In the case of martial artists, it's almost always "You're wrong." Even if they pad it up in a snowman suit full of "If you think that, well more power to you" (which as we all know is code for "You're full of shit and I find you too stupid to talk to), it's confrontational - me against you - my ideas against your ideas. Look back over the posts. You'll see it, from KOTF's condescension to kanik's petulent, arms-crossed-over-the-chest "My view is badass, and you're just missing the boat" attitude. People who can't think of themselves as anything but martial artists see everything as a conflict. It's all a battle, which means they relate to other human beings in a truly sick and perverse way. Even if it's in small measures, you can see it here in this very thread! Harmony? Brotherhood? BULLSHIT! Martial artists condition themselves endlessly to "beat the bad guy." That means anytime they're faced with a conflict, someone (or something) has to lose so they can win. Start tearing down studs, KOTF. Looks like it's time to build a new house. |
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#10 (permalink) |
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Humble Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Well... I think the secret to a happy life is having a good shovel.
Lets face it, nothing works better for dealing with all the crap in the world. ...and, if things get really ugly, you know? You can always bury it. Besides, you're never going to have a good foundation until you start digging.
__________________
"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur." James Paterson |
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#11 (permalink) |
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Excessive Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2002
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my training began from an incident in my childhood, I was about 4, and was playing with an 8th grader. My Dad relates the story as, the 8th grader ran into the house crying. My dad asked what happen and the kid said "Tim hit me with a stick" My dad came to investigate. He found me and asked if I hit him and I said yes. He said with what, and I pointed to a long 2X4. So my dad asked me why I hit him (I had knocked him unconscious by the way) and I said "because he was telling me what to do"
That was the thing that crossed the line, Although I was getting in fights weekly. parents would call my house saying I beat up their kids. So you might say I was a bully, but I was a bully of bullies. I didn't pick on weaker kids only those who thought they could challenge me. So my dad signed me up for martial arts. Over the years I have modified what I have learned and why. of my pursuits Martial arts is probably my biggest joy. It represents a challenge. Now I am focused in my training on perfecting my abilities. Hitting a bit harder, cleaner, faster, more strategically. Keeping my defenses strong, and tight. One thing I have noticed is that MA has given me a lens to view things in my life. Challenges are attacked head on, with strategy and with a goal of self improvement. The discipline, pushed me through school, into business, and has given me a drive to constantly be more than I was yesterday. It allowed me to accept my role as predator in a world populated mostly by prey. So everything in my life relates to my MA training. Which isn't really hard to understand considering since the age of 4 MA has probably been one of the most consistent things in my life. So a large portion of my free time is spent on MA, my friends are my training partners. My GF was trained in MA by me, and she is also a training partner. Nearly all of my friends have trained under me or with me in MA. At one time, my job, and my recreation were MA. So my MA is not a house, it is a masterpiece, it is constantly adjusted until it is just right.
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eXcessiveFORCE. If you must use force, make it excessive. |
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#12 (permalink) | |
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Premiere Member
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Quote:
Thanks XF. You put into words the idea I have attempted to convey here several times. I think maybe personal biased and a confrontational attitude have colored some people's idea of what I say. I agree with you whole heartedly on what you have just posted. I'll bet you have never looked at your life as a sham because you see it through the lens of a "Martial artist". For anyone to say being a martial artist at your core is a sham, is to spit on any teacher they have ever had. You might as well crap on the door step of any instructor you have ever trained under to say such a thing. ![]() You put down the same words I have said in the context of your own life, with out the spin doctors hitting it and tearing it apart. Tant you are 150% correct that shovel is the best tool anyone could carry. Now if you'll excuse me I have a giant hole to dig and fill with a lot of compost. ![]() Thanks both you guys.
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The actions one takes are answered by consequences waiting at their conclusion. There are no exceptions. http://destructionscreation.deviantart.com/gallery/
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#13 (permalink) |
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There's that confrontational reactivity again.
I never said being a martial artist to your core is a sham. I said being a martial artist at the expense of being a father, a husband, a provider, a citizen, etc. was not a choice I'd make. I also said that MY reason for learning martial art was to be a good fighter. I have already stood up for all other reasons to train, and I have said more times than I can count that whatever reason you choose to train is a good reason for you. Why is it that when I apply that same statement to myself, you think I'm shitting on my instructors? I train so that I will be capable of defending myself - not so I'll be a world master, and not so I'll be the next hall of famer. Why is it such a threat to you and your belief system that I could look at my training and say that it has served me exactly to the end that I wanted it to, and that now I do not feel it needs to be my primary, all consuming pursuit in life? Why is it that I can't have my own reasons for training without it somehow being seen as a derogatory stand against every instructor I ever had? I didn't go to them to be like them or to do what they do. I went to them so they could teach me the things I wanted to know. That doesn't mean I don't value my teachers, and it doesn't mean I don't appreciate them. It just means I don't necessarily want to follow in their every footstep. |
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#14 (permalink) | |
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Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Anything I say at this point will be translated by you as hostile.
I hate to say it but I agree with treelizard for once. Since this must have been what I meant here. Quote:
So I think maybe you're the one whose a little pissed at the world right now and you're just taking it out on the forums. I've been nothing but civil to you in all your threads where you've put down my abilities as a person, called me perverse, and totally crapped on my way of life. I've acknowledged that your way of thinking is just as valid as mine and you've chosen to put words into my mouth. It's obvious you're just trying to get a rise out of somebody. I'm not biting. You'll blame this on some experiment you wrote of in your journal I'm sure but the truth is you just like to argue. ![]() All your instructors were martial artist so logically following your line of thought you are saying they are perverse and living a sham too. Those are you words not my translation of them. I don't find anything you say as a threat because your own words threaten you more than you could ever threaten me. There's nothing like tearing down your own credibility. Spin this however you want to. Tell people it's a hissy fit or however you want to see it that's fine with me bro'. It's up to the adults to decide for themselves. I'm not running a smear campaign or calling people out in my posts. I'm not obviously fishing for a flame so I'm secure in the fact that I've made all the point I need to in this thread. XF did a fine job of relaying what it is to be a martial artist. Tant came in with some sage and solid advice. Once again I'll make my grand exit. ![]() Tant this one's for you baby Sigh......................... KOTF
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The actions one takes are answered by consequences waiting at their conclusion. There are no exceptions. http://destructionscreation.deviantart.com/gallery/
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#15 (permalink) | |||
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See? Once again, I've brought people together.
![]() Quote:
You say I'm being hostile, but I haven't been at all. In fact, I've stuck up for anyone's reasons to train anything, even as you called them frauds, retards, morons, and idiots. Even as you were chastising and criticizing people for reading the "wrong" translations of ancient Chinese texts, I was saying "Train what makes you happy because it makes you happy." Even as you were preaching about how irresponsible sport martial arts training is for combat-oriented fighters, I was defending a person's right to use whatever worked best for their own personal aims. I've been a champion for independence, and a staunch advocate of following one's own path. You've been one of many who likes to put things in terms of "it's my way or it's wrong." I'm not upset. On the contrary, I'm the happiest guy I know. But mostly that's because I have a full, well-rounded life. You don't really have to understand, and you don't have to accept it. You don't have to agree. And you don't have to try and feel bigger than your own insecurities by pulling the old, tired "sigh and pretend to walk away from the discussion" routine. (As a sidebar, have you ever actually lived up to that promise? You ALWAYS come back to the posts you say you're walking away from, although your tantrums are less impressive than they once were) I just posted this to make a very simple point, and that is that some martial arts practitioners lose sight of the purpose of their training. They allow themselves to believe that they don't need to worry about where it's all going (even though they also learn early on that they need to set goals...talk about hypocrisy!). They forget what's important to them, and substitute other agendas for their own. Want me to prove how true it is? Nowhere in my first post did I mention anyone specifically. Nowhere did I call anyone out. I didn't point a finger at anyone, and the only person I used as any kind of example was myself. I said: Quote:
Quote:
And if that's putting words in your mouth, then you are every bit as guilty, KOTF. Your high horse, sanctimonious role play won't wash. I can show you as many instances of your twisting my words and you can show me. What you can't show me is anything in the original post that referred to you. You just took it that way. I haven't once "crapped on your way of life." Show me where I have. See? You took it personal. You chose to make it all about you. I challenge you right now to post a quote from me where I crapped on your way of life or said you were wrong for approaching your training the way you do. Especially here in this thread. You can't do it. And yet, you choose to accuse me of putting words in your mouth? Insecurity is an ugly thing. |
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