recommend learning to pummel

[quietanswer]

Recently a guy named Devin Pickles started working out with the Saint Louis Training Circle. He's got us learning Greco Roman clinch concepts, learning to pummel and hand fight. I really recommend this to anyone who has heard about it, not investigated it yet. I learned more about throwing during these drills than i did in a couple years of judo training. Great drills. We're going to start working strikes in to the flow some this sunday.

Imagine my surprise when I found that the greco roman pummeling was just wing chun sensitivity drills at a slightly closer range..fook and tan sao and all the rest.

Devin has a lot of thai/ bjj/ greco experience, and has done lots of seminars with Burton Richardson, Danny Inosanto, Ron Harris, and some others. We feel lucky to have him.

He also started us on progressive boxing drills such as Jab-Catch-Jab and Cross-Roll-Cross. I have to say these drills have helped my sparring a lot already. I am a firm believer in sparring being the final teacher, but these drills have helped incredibly. Anyone who hasn't done something similar should try it.
Some guys stopped by while we were fighting too. They were bout 18 or so. They said they'd return Sunday. Maybe they will.

[HungryWolf21]

Sounds great!! Me and a few other guys in my school here in Charlotte have talked about getting together on weekends to really work our boxing/thai/grappling/wingchun. Hopefully we can work things out (all of our schedules during the week differ greatly). Please post any drills or discoveries that y'all come across during y'alls sessions. I will try to do the same.

[quietanswer]

ever since Devin Pickles joined our workouts, I've let him take over the fight training for us. Devin is a skilled teacher who's worked under lots of guys in this area (including Ron Smith Muay Thai, Mike Griffin for BJJ and MMA, with an instructorship there) as well as lots of seminars and video tapes. We're lucky to have a guy with his understandings.

We've been doing lots of progressive boxing drills and working the Greco-R pummel (and working in strikes here) a lot.

If you want to see a run down of what we've done at each workout, go to
http://www.saintlouistrainingcircle.com/classlog.html

Feel free to use the info for ideas, that's why we list it.
If anyone wants a drill explained, let me know, and I'll post it in the technique section. the jab-catch-jab drill is posted there, as well as the cross-roll-cross drill.

[MikeJKD]

I know this thread hasn't gotten much attention, but everyone should really try this stuff out and see how they can incorporate it. I have an Olympic Wrestling coach teaching at our school, and he's given us some great stuff to train out of pummelling. When you mix it in with what the BJJ guys have all been doing from the clinch and what the Thai boxers and JKD guys do from trapping range, it can add a new dimension to controlling the bad guy. Great Advice Quietanswer!
Mike
PS: This wrestling coach has had so much fun in the vale tudo competition class that he's entered the lightweight (under 176 lbs.) division at our upcoming Vale Tudo event, and hopes to take home the lightweight title belt! Updates to come!

[jonhutton]

What do you mean by running crosses on your workout plan? I think I understood everything else. By the way, thanks for access, it is always interesting to see how someone else puts things together.

Jon Hutton

[quietanswer]

Hungry Wolf: I have more drills and such up. Pics soon to come, if I get this damned digi cam to interface..

for the drills : http://www.saintlouistrainingcircle.com/technfast.html

MikeJKD: Agreed. a couple years of judo, and I still really wasn't great at setting up throws..and this was in a highly skilled competitive class in this region. We were merely to find the setups in Randori (sparring) it seemed..and I did, somewhat. However, upon learning the pummel, and some of the techniques for handfighting and throwing a man's weight in the clinch..well..I suddenly understood tons of the Judo throws that only frustrated me before. This was in one day of practice.. It's not so much that Greco Roman has something different that judo and jiu jitsu and sambo don't have..it's that they approach it slightly differently, and it's like having one more guy give his take on throwing, and one more perspective.. I find the underhook is a must know for anyone in kali who isn't learning to do FMA clinch concepts.. I favor the idea of drawing my blade AFTER the grappling has started in a confrontation..and am now learning to get to an outside underhook control position (not outside his arm, but where I am looking nearly the same direction as he, arms linked) for the draw, then step inside. I'm sure this is already within kali in a million places, I just never got there.

Jon Hutton: Running crosses. Focus mitt drill..it's listed at:

http://www.saintlouistrainingcircle.com/classlog.html

we did it with the mitt's. Devin puts the mitts on his chest, and I feed two jabs at my first two offered targets. after the second jab, I lower my weight just a touch (set my stance for some pushing power) and throw a hard, short cross at my next offered target. I take a step forward, plant the feet, then throw another hard short cross, pushing my opponent backward (that's why they are hard and short, because I'm driving into him, specifically to lift him upwards and backwards..keeping him running on his toe tips..that's the strategy) Another step. Plant the feet. Another short cross. Another step. Plant the feet. Another short cross. Then with this last cross, I push a couple more inches, to throw him away as I step forward with my rear foot, angling off for a thai kick with my (once) front leg...

We also do the drill where I jab, jab, running cross, cross, cross, cross til I get him to a chain link fence where we train, then I use the last cross on his head to pin him to the fence while he bobs and slips, and I find places for my wall tools: punch, elbow, kick, knee, tackle..

You can find another wording of this drill on my site, shortly, as I like it.. think of the running crosses as traditional forward reverse punches from karate. They have a very similar energy, as a matter of fact, the only real REAL difference being that you return to a boxing guard between punches, not a hand-chambered-at-hip position.

Best of luck to all. Any questions or corrections (i'm not so advanced a fighter) let me know.