Trapping...Does it work?

[pstevens]

Originally Posted by Mike N

I think of trapping as a function of making a connection and stop/ deflect and counter. I think the trapping range is nearly identical to the range we call the clinch. I think alot of the clinch work is trapping. It may not be pak sau da, bong sau, tan sau type techniques. We are to tied up that trapping has to look a certain way. the 50/50 pummel is essentially you bong sau your over hooking arm and extending it into an under hook and your partner does the same. take the 50/50 pummel and extend the range and move your hand in front of your body an simulate that movement in narrower pattern. It would have a Chi sau look to it.
I think trapping is so much more than the techniques being defined as a pak sau, tan sau, ect. It is a principle of connecting, deflect, grasp and manipulate to your advantage. If you block by extending your jab to cause the deflecting arm away it is very similar to a bil sau.

Yes. Well said... Trappling like clinching is a preventive method that sets up more defense or offense. In this regard, I think trapping is effective. Where I don't see trapping is effective is someone standing at arms-length away and thinking they can trap a jab or cross. That's more like suicide... but I'm sure most folks on here understand that.

[fire cobra]

Originally Posted by Ghost

firecobra, i have little experience in trapping, well some but not much but is what you found to work for you anything like the sort of long guard arm/hand manipulation in thai boxing if you get what i mean?

Hi Ghost,

I understand exactly what you mean bro,in the time period we have been discussing I hadnt yet learnt the "long guard" so it was pure(?) Wing Chun trapping I was trying to pull off against boxers,I quickly modified the stance so I didnt look out of place in the gym.

After I learnt the long guard I tried that to(still love that guard for certain strategys).also ater I learnt the long guard I realised the similarity beetween it and the guard position of Wing Chun,later I would realise that Wing Chun and Muay Thai had a lot in common!.

Anyway Im going of track a bit so hope that answers your question bro.

Good training Ghost.

[NaSZ]

Thanks 4 the discussion...and reading your posts im learning that trapping is riskie...it could work, but you gotta watch it.
Cuz one hook would kill you when you think you should enter to trap!

Like I said im learning JKD and im doing it for 2 years now...
I trained in the past Kyokushin Karate (brown belt) and trained Muay Thai...So you would say I know what Im doing...but when im to close, I just can not trapp..cuz the opponent will not do what they teach you..thats why I have a big head in these types of things...(you know if i do this you gotta do that) in reality they will punch you on the nose if you think it will be so easy.

So instead of trapping...I try to fight myself in by using jabs and my legs...and when im in...I try to give hooks or ellebows or knees...but my other hand is always by the face for safety...When I see my chance I will grabb and wrestle to the ground for a lock or a choke...

When I C somebody showing how to trapp..you C alwayz one arm low when hitting...so there's no defeance?? Is there?

I really wanna learn this trapping thing, I mean in sparring or maybe a real fight...what can I do?

[pstevens]

Originally Posted by NaSZ

I really wanna learn this trapping thing, I mean in sparring or maybe a real fight...what can I do?

Do what comes naturally to you... what you're good at.

When I started martial arts years ago, I wanted to learn everything. I wanted to be a complete martial artist who could do everything. This was a child's thinking.

Today, I understand that you work towards your strengths and skill sets. You have to adapt the art to your character, body-type, athleticism, etc... And if certain things will never work, find other things. Professional athletes do this as well. At the highest levels, they work their game and try to hide their weaknesses in competition.

[eXcessiveForce]

I wouldn't call the trapping we do as traditional wing chun. But it has worked on everyone who has come in.

First day we don't train them we test to see how what we do works against them.

So far no problems except for attributes. The 6'5" guy was easy to trap and do limb destructions on but damn if you didn't have to work for it.

as people train with us trapping becomes harder and harder to do. They stop doing many of the things that lead to trapping. But each time a new person comes in they get thrashed by the person who came in before them.

but we don't trap to trap, we only trap to hit. So if we can hit without trapping we would.

[Ghost]

Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce

So if we can hit without trapping we would.

i think thats where the problem lies for me, i cant say i know enough about trapping to make statements about it but id say that i cant hit someone, anytime someone makes a punch or strike they leave an opening.
so why trap?
that may be too simple but as much as i can accept it is possible to trap does it lend anything new? if you can hit them anyway that is.
just asking cos trapping for me isnt really familiar though i have some trianing in it

[fire cobra]

Na Ghost,If you can hit em just hit em,To trap is to stop a better puncher(if your trapping the hand of course) than you or perhaps a equal puncher.

Its yet again another tactic/tool to acomplish the goal,if their is a easier route then for sure take it.

All the best bro.

[Mike N]

My first progressive instructor told me trapping was a result of the situation. You don't initiate as a trap. you fight, you miss, get blocked, or what ever then you just flow forward. Instead of having to break a way and re-initiate again. You just attack and an obstical gets into your path and you address that obstical. That could be an arm, leg, knee, shoulder, ect. I find even Jun fan trapping can work decent if you just flow and not focus on it. It is a very small percentage of techniques though. I say you wont be able to just jump in and do it till you practice it in controlled sparring then you get more confident into it. Start with some slower tempo sparring and work on it you will find places to trap a little at a time. practice with success and you will develope it.
It is also attribute base techniques so it takes time and effort to develope.

[kingoftheforest]

Trapping is best utilized with techniques like skin listening or sticking hands.

You make initial contact with your opponent, then you don't allow contact to break. As long as there is contact you know where your opponent is.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

Trapping is best utilized with techniques like skin listening or sticking hands.

You make initial contact with your opponent, then you don't allow contact to break. As long as there is contact you know where your opponent is.

It would be easy to put "TRAPPING" in a nice little box say it will work with X or Y...

It seems to me any attachment can be a trap.

What of the boxer taking measure with jabs. Attachment or no it can break the cadence/ rhythm... Is that trapping?

[ShawnJKD]

I find it interesting that DBMA is used as an example to prove that trapping doesn't work when Marc Denny makes a point of showing where the trapping comes into play at his seminars (explosive pak sao da). He makes it work by setting it up, putting his oppenent into a position when the trap is ready to go. I believe the new Running Dog game employs some trapping as well in the ground game.

Just this weekend at a seminar Guro Inosanto made a point of the fact that trapping "works" when the correct structure presents itself - and that it doesn't work when that structure is not present. If a barrier is there then it can be "trapped". Also, as someone else mentioned earlier, it is possible to trap after the attack - I think it is Vunak who said at one point that there are 5 times to trap: 1) Before the Attack 2) As the Attack comes in 3) At the moment of Attack 4) as the Attack retracts and 5) after the Attack

Whether you can make those opportunities work for you will have something to do with your attacker's attributes and your own.

Shawn

[fire cobra]

[QUOTE=ShawnJKD;324457]I find it interesting that DBMA is used as an example to prove that trapping doesn't work when Marc Denny makes a point of showing where the trapping comes into play at his seminars (explosive pak sao da). He makes it work by setting it up, putting his oppenent into a position when the trap is ready to go. I believe the new Running Dog game employs some trapping as well in the ground game.

Just this weekend at a seminar Guro Inosanto made a point of the fact that trapping "works" when the correct structure presents itself - and that it doesn't work when that structure is not present. If a barrier is there then it can be "trapped". Also, as someone else mentioned earlier, it is possible to trap after the attack - I think it is Vunak who said at one point that there are 5 times to trap: 1) Before the Attack 2) As the Attack comes in 3) At the moment of Attack 4) as the Attack retracts and 5) after the Attack

Whether you can make those opportunities work for you will have something to do with your attacker's attributes and your own.

Shawn[/QUOTE

Good post ShawnJKD,

I think Bruce Lee if asked this question of "does trapping work" would of said yes.

[Michael Wright]

I don't disagree that Guro Dan, Paul, Bruce and many other people will testify to the effectiveness of Trapping.

What I have learned over the years is that what people say, and what they really do, are two entirely different things.

[fire cobra]

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

I don't disagree that Guro Dan, Paul, Bruce and many other people will testify to the effectiveness of Trapping.

What I have learned over the years is that what people say, and what they really do, are two entirely different things.

Fair point Michael,Ive found much the same.

[kingoftheforest]

Trapping is something you practice but in a real fight it turns out to be incidental.

Like an eye gouge, you don't aim for it. You practice it familiarize yourself with it, know how it feels, and what it "looks" like, and if it happens you automatically respond with it in your flow.