Trapping...Does it work?

[Tim Mousel]

I've been training in trapping (and of course other areas of martial arts) for 29 years and am fortunate to have trained with many top martial artists. I used to be a trapping fanatic. I loved it and feel I became fairly proficient at it.

With that being said, I use very, very little trapping when I spar or fight. For me, it's very difficult to successfully pull off. There have been a very few selective, basic trapping maneuvers that have worked for me. The complex trapping combinations..never (for me).

Now of course if I were to spar a classmate in a fun, playful manner, sure I can pull off traps. Big deal. It only matters when going against someone with some skill trying to take my head off. It is those situations I'm talking about.

Pick almost any obscure, crazy, low percentage move and a skilled martial artist can make it work against an unskilled beginner. If that's the type of person your training is geared towards, learn to throw a good jab and cross and call it a day.

I've met and trained with highly skilled people that I believe could pull off some of the more complex trapping moves. But, how worthwhile is a skill that only a very small percentage of trained martial artists have a chance at making work? It seems like a much better use of time to train techniques that work for a high percentage of martial artists that can be gained over a relatively short period of time.

I still train trapping but only because I find it fun. I still teach complex trapping (primarily in private lessons when requested) but always with a disclaimer which is, "I think it's very unlikely you can make this work in a fight, but here it is...".

Tim

[Michael Wright]

Originally Posted by Tim Mousel

Now of course if I were to spar a classmate in a fun, playful manner, sure I can pull off traps. Big deal. It only matters when going against someone with some skill trying to take my head off. It is those situations I'm talking about.

Pick almost any obscure, crazy, low percentage move and a skilled martial artist can make it work against an unskilled beginner. If that's the type of person your training is geared towards, learn to throw a good jab and cross and call it a day.

I've met and trained with highly skilled people that I believe could pull off some of the more complex trapping moves. But, how worthwhile is a skill that only a very small percentage of trained martial artists have a chance at making work? It seems like a much better use of time to train techniques that work for a high percentage of martial artists that can be gained over a relatively short period of time.

Hallelujah.

Bang on Tim, excellent post.

[NaSZ]

Originally Posted by Tim Mousel

I've been training in trapping (and of course other areas of martial arts) for 29 years and am fortunate to have trained with many top martial artists. I used to be a trapping fanatic. I loved it and feel I became fairly proficient at it.

With that being said, I use very, very little trapping when I spar or fight. For me, it's very difficult to successfully pull off. There have been a very few selective, basic trapping maneuvers that have worked for me. The complex trapping combinations..never (for me).

Now of course if I were to spar a classmate in a fun, playful manner, sure I can pull off traps. Big deal. It only matters when going against someone with some skill trying to take my head off. It is those situations I'm talking about.

Pick almost any obscure, crazy, low percentage move and a skilled martial artist can make it work against an unskilled beginner. If that's the type of person your training is geared towards, learn to throw a good jab and cross and call it a day.

I've met and trained with highly skilled people that I believe could pull off some of the more complex trapping moves. But, how worthwhile is a skill that only a very small percentage of trained martial artists have a chance at making work? It seems like a much better use of time to train techniques that work for a high percentage of martial artists that can be gained over a relatively short period of time.

I still train trapping but only because I find it fun. I still teach complex trapping (primarily in private lessons when requested) but always with a disclaimer which is, "I think it's very unlikely you can make this work in a fight, but here it is...".

Tim

This is one hell of a post...I understand you, cuz this is exactly the way I feel about this trappin.
The Gospel!

[JUTSAU]

ive read all these posts and all i can say is if trapping works just once in a real life situation
then its worth training.what you guys are forgeting is you only trap when your oponents arm blocks your attacking line.at the end of the day your main aim is to hit.if you guys think trapping does not work thats your opinion.if it does,nt work against a boxer then dont use it.not everyone is a boxer.jkd is a street fighting system.use what works for you but train everything.train hard

[Michael Wright]

Originally Posted by JUTSAU

ive read all these posts and all i can say is if trapping works just once in a real life situation then its worth training

I disagree. Your training should be goverened by efficiency and a clear understanding of high percentage training methods. I don't have 50 years to waste on techniques to accomodate every point of view for the sake of politeness. There are proven methods that are tested in functional combat for all to witness, and are not based on faith, ambiguity or personal preference. Trapping does not fall into that category.

Originally Posted by JUTSAU

what you guys are forgeting is you only trap when your oponents arm blocks your attacking line.at the end of the day your main aim is to hit

I don't see any post on this thread that forgets that

Originally Posted by JUTSAU

jkd is a street fighting system.use what works for you but train everything

There is no such thing as a streetfighting system, it comes down to how each individual copes with the stress and pressure of real violence. In my experience the physical aspect consists of a small handful of simple, meat and potatoes basics, and has nothing to do with "training everything" - which from what I have seen only makes you a mediocre theorist.

[pstevens]

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

I disagree. Your training should be goverened by efficiency and a clear understanding of high percentage training methods. I don't have 50 years to waste on techniques to accomodate every point of view for the sake of politeness. There are proven methods that are tested in functional combat for all to witness, and are not based on faith, ambiguity or personal preference. Trapping does not fall into that category.



I don't see any post on this thread that forgets that



There is no such thing as a streetfighting system, it comes down to how each individual copes with the stress and pressure of real violence. In my experience the physical aspect consists of a small handful of simple, meat and potatoes basics, and has nothing to do with "training everything" - which from what I have seen only makes you a mediocre theorist.

The best thing I've read all day...

[JUTSAU]

I disagree mate you learn diferent techniques and faver certain ones but it is always worth
keeping your other techniques well trained.as i have said before just because trapping does not work for certain individuals does,nt mean it wont work for other people.like bruce said take what is usefall throw away the none esentials.

[Michael Wright]

Originally Posted by JUTSAU

I disagree mate you learn diferent techniques and faver certain ones but it is always worth keeping your other techniques well trained.

We'll agree to disagree, that's cool.

Originally Posted by JUTSAU

like bruce said take what is usefall throw away the none esentials.

like Trapping

[JUTSAU]

like you say we'll agree to disagree.keep training

[Nicodemus]

Trapping...In my experience not so much. Not because it can't work but there are more intuitive options in situations trapping as taught classically that are more effective and more probable of maintaining dominance in the situation.

I don't attempt much trapping in hard sparring and never "really" have in an actual fight but I have modified trapping so that it is a lot more useful to me. I do trap often when closing the distance from strike to clench range and back out. Something as simple as trapping the close hand to the chest from guard when at the side of the opponent or his hand to my body then counter when someone tries to grab, lock and in those situations I find trapping very useful and actually like to do this more than I like to actually grasp a person in some instances.

But, in hard sparring or a real life self defense situation not really. everything is happening much faster and with a much more confusing rhythm. In most situations it is more intuitive to block or evade and counter than to chase the persons fist around to trap. Most people don't instinctively look to trapping when someone is trying to punch a hole in their head.

[mellow]

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

I disagree. Your training should be goverened by efficiency and a clear understanding of high percentage training methods. I don't have 50 years to waste on techniques to accomodate every point of view for the sake of politeness. There are proven methods that are tested in functional combat for all to witness, and are not based on faith, ambiguity or personal preference. Trapping does not fall into that category.



I don't see any post on this thread that forgets that



There is no such thing as a streetfighting system, it comes down to how each individual copes with the stress and pressure of real violence. In my experience the physical aspect consists of a small handful of simple, meat and potatoes basics, and has nothing to do with "training everything" - which from what I have seen only makes you a mediocre theorist.

Shhhhhhh . . . . .
You're going to destroy the entire martial arts industry.

[NaSZ]

Originally Posted by mellow

Shhhhhhh . . . . .
You're going to destroy the entire martial arts industry.

hahahah hilarious! But maybe there s a little truth in it..

[mellow]

I'd say about 95% of all martial art techniques goes out the window in real life. It's mostly about who can hit faster, harder, and more often. It's the root basics and attributes that win fight but if you only teach that you would soon have an empty school real quick (I know from experience).

On the subject of the thread, my answer is yes and no. Very few people can actually pull off textbook trapping in real life, but I've found that trapping drills are a pretty safe way to develop certain attributes like: developing the ability to flow and react, getting people comfortable at close range, learning how to apply continuous forward pressure, and learning how to capitalize on an opponents mistakes. All there other and possibly better ways of doing this? Certainly! But let's face it, some of these trapping drills look real cool and they keep students coming back

I do think that we have a responsibility to inform our students that "hey, these are just drills, in a real fight things won't go down like this"

[baizewizard]

On the subject of the thread, my answer is yes and no. Very few people can actually pull off textbook trapping in real life, but I've found that trapping drills are a pretty safe way to develop certain attributes like: developing the ability to flow and react, getting people comfortable at close range, learning how to apply continuous forward pressure, and learning how to capitalize on an opponents mistakes. All there other and possibly better ways of doing this? Certainly! But let's face it, some of these trapping drills look real cool and they keep students coming back

I do think that we have a responsibility to inform our students that "hey, these are just drills, in a real fight things won't go down like this"

Hi
Just to illustrate a point here.
One of my students recently had an altercation in the street with a guy who reached inside his left jacket pocket with his right arm, obviously with bad intent.
My student moved in immediately, applied a straight pac sao to the guy's forearm and punched him to the face three or four times.
The police were called as the guy was out of it, where upon the guy was found to have a claw hammer in the pocket.

This basic trapping technique was one of the very first taught to me some 25 years ago. Here is one time where it worked in a genuine altercation.

Just thought I'd point that out.

[Garth]

From reading some of these posts I got the impression that most of you believe that trapping is very complicated and takes years to master. While there are some very complicated trapping techniques they can also be very simple.

In my wing chun training the most basic trapping techniques were taught very early and were very easy to acquire. Of course they only work in very specific situations, but if there is a simple technique that works even in only some situations why not learn it. In a street fight the simplest technique is usually the best.