Trapping...Does it work?

[eXcessiveForce]

Our group has also had a lot of success with basic trapping. Pak, Jut, Tan, Lop, and bong. That is the extent of the traps we use. Mostly Pak though.


On new people who show up (even ones with training elsewhere) our newer guys can usually tear them up and pull of the traps.


I think the biggest problem is that most people only train against their own group, and eventually it gets pretty hard to pull off stuff against your own guys.

But we are always concentrating on hitting not on trapping.

[Crafty Dog]

"Mark,
How's it going? Long time no see. Our group works on making trapping work in the real world. We even have a dvd on it. I too can do a shameless plug.
It's called " Jeet Kune Do: Trapping Hands For combat" We did it for Unique Publications (Inside Kung Fu Magazine). , , , Tim Tackett"

Hi Tim:

Long time indeed. I trust all is well with you. My post about our DVD was in specific response to Flaves's post about trapping on the ground. Not my intention to violate forum etiquette.

Marc

[thtackett]

Mark,
It's all good. I didn't know that it was against forum etiquette to talk about your own dvds on this forum. Sorry!
Tim Tackett

[Flaves]

Hey, if you guys have DVDs or instructional videos that will help people especially related to a specific topic, I don't think it's bad form in the forum to talk about it. I find that the Lop Sao works well to get someone to cross center line and set up a move when you are on the ground. Also, you can apply the basic Pak Sao trap to trap 2 hands with 1 and strike while you are on top. I'd love to check out your DVD on these concepts, since I have only figured these out on my own and with some friends. Getting specific tips from qualified instructors who develop and apply them, is always welcomed by me. Thanks for posting the link.

Dan

[thtackett]

I think when some people think of trapping, they think of:
I punch
You Block
I trap (I guess the hand did not retract to the starting position?)
You block
I trap and then hit
Trapping on the ground is very useful. I know Eric Paulson uses it a lot, so does Jim McCann and Richie Carrion. I will look into getting Crafty Mark's dvd.
Mark,
Have you anything from Puppy Dog Mark lately?
Tim

[Michael Wright]

Originally Posted by thtackett

I think when some people think of trapping, they think of:
I punch
You Block
I trap (I guess the hand did not retract to the starting position?)
You block
I trap and then hit

I think in fairness Mr Tackett, the reason most people think that, is because that is what most people in JKD are taught.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by Crafty Dog

"Mark,
How's it going? Long time no see. Our group works on making trapping work in the real world. We even have a dvd on it. I too can do a shameless plug.
It's called " Jeet Kune Do: Trapping Hands For combat" We did it for Unique Publications (Inside Kung Fu Magazine). , , , Tim Tackett"

Hi Tim:

Long time indeed. I trust all is well with you. My post about our DVD was in specific response to Flaves's post about trapping on the ground. Not my intention to violate forum etiquette.

Marc

Originally Posted by thtackett

Mark,
It's all good. I didn't know that it was against forum etiquette to talk about your own dvds on this forum. Sorry!
Tim Tackett

It is all good! (what's etiquette.???) LOL

[Justthefacts]

The question should be, does Bruce Lee's trapping work? The answer is, YES! Despite assertions to the contrary from the Teri Tom's of the world, Bruce Lee was practicing and using trapping techiques in the post-Oakland phase of JKD. Sifu Steve Golden told Paul Bax that during a 1967 conversation with Bruce Lee about the effectiveness of chi sao, Bruce asked Sifu Golden to try to stop him as he attacked. Sifu Golden stated that in a matter of seconds, Bruce bridged the gap, pinned Sifu Golden's right arm against his body with a pak sao, and Bruce put his fingers near his eyes and said, "That's my game." I think it's safe to say that Bruce Lee's trapping philosophy involved firing the lead hand before trapping the limb or limbs with the rear hand. Ergo, stories about Bruce Lee landing 3 hits before implementing the trap.

[joeygil]

While it's true you don't see a lot of trapping during sparring, I wonder if it's an partly an artifact of the equipment. I feel a lot of trapping doesn't work quite so well with boxing gloves on. Seems to work better with those MMA gloves everyone has now. If this is correct, then I would think trapping would work at least as well without gloves on as with MMA gloves.

Any thoughts?


Note: I'm talking about simple trapping, not the complex multi-stage trapping.

[Justthefacts]

Joey: When Bruce Lee entered the 1958 Hong Kong high school boxing championship tournament, he had never used boxing gloves before and had to rely on his Wing Chun straight punching techniques. Lee overcame his inexperience with the equipment and won the lightweight championship with a 3rd round knockout over defending champion Gary Elms. I'm sure that the equipment did not allow Bruce Lee to use the slapping or pulling hand techniques that he had become so proficient at, but the equipment used in MMA tournaments would have been more to Lee's liking. In terms of compound as opposed to simple trapping, some of Bruce Lee's fellow students from the Yip Man days have stated that Bruce concentrated on the "first hand" trap and was not a big fan of compound trapping.

When Bruce trained Joe Lewis, he told Joe that he was not into compound trapping and would rather "reach over and knock the guy out." Anybody that ever felt Bruce Lee's trapping techniques will tell you that they were functional and that they hurt. Lee's initial trapping movement would be designed to hurt the limb and to completely shut his opponent down. As I stated before, the real question should be, does the trapping taught by Bruce Lee work? If you go by results, the answer is YES!! Bob Bremer, James DeMile, Jesse Glover, Patrick Strong, Howard Williams and other Bruce Lee students have used their Sifu's trapping techniques in the streets and they have walked away from these encounters unscathed.

[joeygil]

I just heard from a friend our old JKD instructor, Sifu Mark Stewart successfully uses trapping and stop kicking in Muay Thai bouts in Thailand all the time.

[Justthefacts]

Joe: Thanks for passing along that information. Great stuff. Notice how Sifu Stewart is effectively employing the core arts of JKD? The foundation of JKD is Wing Chun, Boxing, and Fencing. Sifu Stewart is using the trapping hands from Wing Chun and the stop kicking from Fencing. If he threw in some hooks and crosses from Boxing, his bouts would be the ultimate expression of JKD.

[fire cobra]

Originally Posted by joeygil

I just heard from a friend our old JKD instructor, Sifu Mark Stewart successfully uses trapping and stop kicking in Muay Thai bouts in Thailand all the time.

Trapping and stop kicking is a part of Muay Thai to.

I have never heard of Mark Stewart Boxing in Thailand(how old will he be now?) not saying he hasnt or doesnt box there mind just that I havent heard of him Boxing and it would be nice to know more details,ie where,when,against who,how many times,winner looser etc.

I find it interesting that a JKD instructor would "put it up" in the rings of Thailand.

[Wi Kali Group]

Ok a few things I've read here I'd like to comment on. I've been out of the loop on JKD & Kali since the mid 90's. So bear with if it sounds like I'm a bit out of touch.

Some comments on Bruce not trapping in the last few years. (This appears to be comming from Sifu Wong's camp.) I'll take Sifu's Inosanto, Wong, Tackett, Hartsel, Vunak and others I respect at their word. I've heard Dan say Bruce trained different things with diff people based on their background and ability. I think this was on the series of DVD's on his site. Ted appears to have said Bruce didn't train trapping the last few years. So all we can say is it's possible Bruce didn't train trapping with Ted the last few years.

"Trapping doesn't work." The static complex trapping most of us practice doesn't work in the same way 3-5 strike combo's don't work (in or out of the ring). You still practice them. Most people are lucky to hit 1 of the 5 punches (unless they are way better). Some people go in hunting for the trap. Most fighters who head hunt take a beating or loose. What did Larry & Dan tell us in the 90's about traps and locks. Don't go looking for it. You will get hit. Take it if its there. The lack of trapping in MMA is simple most of them don't keep their hands up.

Also most people look for some fancy pretty setup like in training. Most of the time if you land one you are going to blast the head back and just keep hitting. Most people are not going to give you trapping energy. When you crash the first barrier and smash them they are going to drop, freak out or turn and run. And if you miss the trap your going to end up clinched or rolling on the ground.

Their are many people here with more to offer than me. M. Deny, T. Tackett & T. Mousel. So if they add or correct me I concede. If anyone else comments use your own judgement and common sense. Remember most of the people out bashing what we do in JKD can't do it.

[joeygil]

Originally Posted by fire cobra

Trapping and stop kicking is a part of Muay Thai to.

I have never heard of Mark Stewart Boxing in Thailand(how old will he be now?) not saying he hasnt or doesnt box there mind just that I havent heard of him Boxing and it would be nice to know more details,ie where,when,against who,how many times,winner looser etc.

I find it interesting that a JKD instructor would "put it up" in the rings of Thailand.

That's just what I've heard from a friend who saw him recently. He's back in Los Angeles visiting (lives in Thailand now), and maybe had a seminar or something. The only other detail I heard was he preferred stop kicks to shin-blocks as their shins are way more conditioned than his.

I also don't know the level these bouts are. They could just be friendly sparring matches for all I know, or they could be a bit more serious.