Trapping...Does it work?

[NaSZ]

I practicing JKD and we train a lot of trapping, only when im sparring I dont trap or C anybody else do trapping.
For me when im sparring its like...I Box and Kick, when Im to close ill try to get the opponent to the ground by wrestle and locking.

My question is...Does Trapping really work in a real fight or even in sparring.

Even when I see that Longbeach demo where you C Bruce spar...I dont see any trapping in his style..

[JadeDragon]

Of course trapping works but you'll have the mma guys saying it doesn't. TMA techniques that have worked for hundreds of years still work but there are some mma guys that will say that these same techniques will not work.

[blanker]

it depends on what you mean by trapping. all the escrima wing chun jkd stuff is a bit to complicated for real full speed fighting but just grabbing the arm of someone who i covering up and yanking it down so you can hit him does work and is used often in mma if you look for it although its not really trained.

[mellow]

Originally Posted by blanker

it depends on what you mean by trapping. all the escrima wing chun jkd stuff is a bit to complicated for real full speed fighting but just grabbing the arm of someone who i covering up and yanking it down so you can hit him does work and is used often in mma if you look for it although its not really trained.

how much training have u had in said arts?

[bumpus]

.
Ever thing works in every school, style, or technique,
if it is used and excutied properly, no matter what it is.

Using what works for you is the best no matter what it is,
including the style, the school, or technique.

And some things will never work for you, no matter how hard you try.


bumpus
.

[blanker]

Originally Posted by mellow

how much training have u had in said arts?

none so i may be wrong but a few general fact are that fine motor skills (like trapping a moving hand) dosnt work in general unless your fighting someone far inferior then you. just look at any of the dog brother or other full contact stick fights and theres not really any trapping the same could be said for the clips i have seen of full contact wing chun (i havent seen any full contact jkd) i dont have anything against these arts but from what i have observed under pressure trapping isnt used. i have read also that alot of the jkd concept guys are dropping trapping in favour of clinching and that towards the end of his life so was bruce lee, i cant remember were i read this so i cant quote it.

[corwin137]

Everything on the planets' utility is subject to context. As JKD folk, it's arguably double important that we know that. While I experience it much less frequently with resistance of some stripe, it does present itself as an opportunity. Have used it with and without tools, and have used it both standing and from my back- again, all in context.

Our group doesn't practice it as much because of it's lack of frequent opportunity to need/use it, but it's a useful tool in context.

Hrm. Makes me think of one other thing: we don't work disarms of tools very much. Meaning, most JKD/FMA guys I know, because we all agree the opportunity to do so doesn't present itself in the context of a fully resisting "opponent", don't work disarms very frequently. There's little argument about this. So, why do we not think in the same way with trapping?

[Max22]

Originally Posted by corwin137

Everything on the planets' utility is subject to context. As JKD folk, it's arguably double important that we know that. While I experience it much less frequently with resistance of some stripe, it does present itself as an opportunity. Have used it with and without tools, and have used it both standing and from my back- again, all in context.

Our group doesn't practice it as much because of it's lack of frequent opportunity to need/use it, but it's a useful tool in context.

Hrm. Makes me think of one other thing: we don't work disarms of tools very much. Meaning, most JKD/FMA guys I know, because we all agree the opportunity to do so doesn't present itself in the context of a fully resisting "opponent", don't work disarms very frequently. There's little argument about this. So, why do we not think in the same way with trapping?

Trapping works and works well against certain structures. In my experience, I've trapped classical stylists, and Wing Chun guys in full sparring situations. They present structures that seem well designed for hand immobilization attacks. To a lesser extent, I used and seen used, trapping techniques against the untrained fighter who just wants to swing wildly, but doesn't really understand fighting.

You don't see it in MMA and boxing much, at least not in the classical sense, because they just don't offer alot of blocking, on which a great deal of trapping is predicated. You do see lots of clinch fighting in which you could argueably say is immobilization attacking. Randy Couture's dirty boxing is an example but others exist. I suppose someone could launch in with a strong pak da but is that worth as much as jab cross? Any trapping is going to invite grappling. Bottom line, trapping is effective strategy in a certain context.

[mellow]

Originally Posted by blanker

none so i may be wrong but a few general fact are that fine motor skills (like trapping a moving hand) dosnt work in general unless your fighting someone far inferior then you. just look at any of the dog brother or other full contact stick fights and theres not really any trapping the same could be said for the clips i have seen of full contact wing chun (i havent seen any full contact jkd) i dont have anything against these arts but from what i have observed under pressure trapping isnt used. i have read also that alot of the jkd concept guys are dropping trapping in favour of clinching and that towards the end of his life so was bruce lee, i cant remember were i read this so i cant quote it.

So you're here speaking authoritatively about a topic that you have no real experience with other than watching a few video clips.

[eXcessiveForce]

works fine for me, but the person does need to let the hand hang a bit, which most people do.

Boxers have a tendency to retract quickly which makes it harder to do against them.

[Michael Wright]

In my experience, Trapping works under three conditions:

1. Most people (95% or so) utilise it in rehearsed routines that offer them the right position and energy to make the art effective, whilst convincing everyone including themselves that this is real training.

2. Exceptionally talented people pull it off in alive training against very average training partners, whilst convincing everyone including themselves that this is real training.

3. Someone pulled off a trap once by accident, in the ring, the cage or the street, then they feel the need to endlessly bang on about the virtues of trapping, whilst convincing everyone including themselves that this is real training.

If you make it your business to prove that trapping works, you will orchestrate circumstances that will serve to prove you right, regardless of their authenticity.

[Max22]

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

In my experience, Trapping works under three conditions:

1. Most people (95% or so) utilise it in rehearsed routines that offer them the right position and energy to make the art effective, whilst convincing everyone including themselves that this is real training.

2. Exceptionally talented people pull it off in alive training against very average training partners, whilst convincing everyone including themselves that this is real training.

3. Someone pulled off a trap once by accident, in the ring, the cage or the street, then they feel the need to endlessly bang on about the virtues of trapping, whilst convincing everyone including themselves that this is real training.

If you make it your business to prove that trapping works, you will orchestrate circumstances that will serve to prove you right, regardless of their authenticity.

I think there some truth to what you are saying, however I still think trapping works only against specific structures. Mainly classical structures. The simultaneous parry and hit is possible against many structures.

Though you make a fair point about delusional training.

[blanker]

Originally Posted by mellow

So you're here speaking authoritatively about a topic that you have no real experience with other than watching a few video clips.

i have an objective opinion on the matter as i am indifferent to arts that use trapping. if im wrong and i dont have a problem admitting i may be, show me a full contact fight were the complex trapping used in these arts are put into practive effectively.

[Michael Wright]

Originally Posted by Max22

I still think trapping works only against specific structures

Trapping "working" against those specific structures still remains nothing more than a routine, because those structures are never tested in a functional or alive environment. People from arts that are based around classical routines, especially trapping, completely change the way they fight if they ever really face an aggressive, resisiting opponent in a live situation. Check out the supreme trapping prowess of Master's Cheung and Boztepe when they fought. Man, that was pure poetry

[fire cobra]

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

Trapping "working" against those specific structures still remains nothing more than a routine, because those structures are never tested in a functional or alive environment. People from arts that are based around classical routines, especially trapping, completely change the way they fight if they ever really face an aggressive, resisiting opponent in a live situation. Check out the supreme trapping prowess of Master's Cheung and Boztepe when they fought. Man, that was pure poetry

Ha Ha I like the last two lines Michael.