Is this guy legitment?

[Garland]

I figure anyone who has put in the time and know's the material should be considered qualified, regardless of who they studied under...that being said, having a direct line to somebody, and being a hop, a hop skip, or a hop skip and a jump away from the origin of the art is ideal...it may open up more opportunities to train with people at higher levels in the arts, hear cool stories, and generally the stuff is better the closer to the source you can get...like anything else. I.e. the further you get from the ocean, fish tastes worse, and Guiness is best the closer you get to Ireland (even if it was produced and bottled in the US).

something I'm not too keen on are mail order experts, or dvd series sifus. You CANNOT learn an art from a vhs tape...you can get fresh ideas to try out with training partners, or learn progressions to practice with friends...but unless you have had formal training and know how to properly execute things...nopes...pft. nada.

[Jujujason]

I guess if it was highlighted on the original post like it was on your reply, I would've gotten it.

[Garland]

meh, sometimes I need the really big letters too. Have you seen those cell phones for old people, and the buttons are like...the size of a quarter? Totally my style.

[Kvntu]

I dunno man, in my opinion, if you aren't certified under Guro Dan Inosanto or Andy Kimura, than you aren't legit. I don't even respect the Vunack JKD guys. Basically, according to that linage chart, it appears as if that guys Instructors, Instructor is certified under Guro Dan.

It's kinda like if I certified you in JKD (I'm not certified under Guro Dan, but one of my instructors is)... would you consider that legitimate? I wouldn't. lol.

Interesting thoughts. However, its clear that Dan Inosanto himself feels training under an instructor that has clear lineage to him is legitimate. I think I will go with Sifu Dan's thoughts on this one.

[Michael Wright]

its clear that Dan Inosanto himself feels training under an instructor that has clear lineage to him is legitimate. I think I will go with Sifu Dan's thoughts on this one.

Good point, well made.

[Flaves]

Interesting thoughts. However, its clear that Dan Inosanto himself feels training under an instructor that has clear lineage to him is legitimate. I think I will go with Sifu Dan's thoughts on this one.

At the same time, if you are training under an Inosanto instructor, and you become a full instructor under that person (Let's Say Sifu Joe) then Sifu Joe can "put you up" (refer you) for instructorship under Guro Dan. Guro Dan usually welcomes that, because it ultimately means more money for him, but also because he is able to keep a watchful eye on the quality of instructor under his lineage this way. Since Guro Dan is still alive and certifiying instructors (a couple people I know received their credentials last year) I question why these other instructors in the lineage have not been referred up? That's the only point I was trying to make. This guy questioned how legitimate this instructor is, and agree to a point.

[Michael Wright]

Guro Dan usually welcomes that, because it ultimately means more money for him, but also because he is able to keep a watchful eye on the quality of instructor under his lineage this way. Since Guro Dan is still alive and certifiying instructors (a couple people I know received their credentials last year) I question why these other instructors in the lineage have not been referred up?

Guro Inosanto has made no more financial gain from me since I became part of his program than he did before I joined it. I still attend the same seminars, go to train at The Academy, and find every oppourtunity I can to learn from him. I don't appreciate your insinuation that his certification is money orientated, in the same way I didnt appreciate your statement about Vunak instructors. You werent able to reply to my question on that, and now you are making presumptuous statements about a program you aren't part of and don't understand. Don't reference people in personal terms like you know them or know what you are talking about, because its clear to me that you don't.

Full Instructors have their own reasons for recommending who they do, in the same way that their students may or may not wish to be put forward for the program. To take a position that someone is less of a martial artist or teacher because they aren't "referred up" is more speculation on circumstances that you aren't part of. Some of the best fighters, teachers and martial artists I train with in the JKD family are not under Guro Dan. To be frank, there are a few people who are that I don't rate at all, they have just played the game very well.

[Flaves]

Man, just relax. You misunderstood my point and blew up. I am not insinuating or refering that Guro Dan's reasons for teaching and spreading his martial arts are purely financially motived. I am sorry if you took my comment to mean that, because it didn't.

I'm not going to argue with you about this, because I find arguing over the Internet a waste of time. That's the same reason I didn't respond to your other post, because I felt it was arguementative in nature.

If you must know, I have trained with several Vunak instructors, and I was not impressed with the quality or philosophy in their teachings. That's not to say that all the instructors under Paul Vunak are poor quality, but my experience has been that they are. I mean, the guy has hundreds of instructors world wide, some of them are bound to be good ( Instructor List )

By the way man, I have also attended numerous Guro Dan seminars, and I always find that the quality of the instructors that are underneath him directly are top notch. If you are an instructor under Guro Dan, then you are probably a quality martial artists and I respect the effort you have put in and your experience.

Anyways, let's just cut out this back and forth between me and you, because it's getting off topic from the purpose of this original guys post. Sound cool?

[Michael Wright]

Flaves,

I see this on internet forums all the time and have done for years, so let me tell you where I'm coming from.

Someone comes on a forum and throws out some provocative comments or opinions that could be taken as derrogatory, like your Vunak comment or your Guro Inosanto and money comment. You are perfectly entitled to that opinion, its a free country and I like some good debate on the boards. The thing is though mate, if you throw out comments like that, someone is bound to come back and say that they disagree and and they think you are out of line. On this forum, because these people are my teachers and my friends, that person is usually me.

You have every right to express your point of view, but just understand that I have the equal right to pick you up on it and say I think you are wrong. Its a forum, thats what debate is all about. If you don't like arguing on the internet, don't come on an internet forum throwing out opinions like that - you must know someone is going to reply. I am relaxed, I never take any of this personally, I'm just a blunt guy who speaks his mind which is why my posts come across as they do. People take me to task on here all the time because I express strong views, you've had some here and I've taken you to task, that's all it is mate.

Your last post was cool and I agree that I don't want to tie up someone's thread with a personal discussion. I did just want to explain to you why I have responded to you in the way I have, and for the record I'm not saying our posts are a bad thing. Its good to have some debate around here, that's what a good forum us all about.

Thanks

MW

[Flaves]

Michael,

I respect where you are coming from, and please understand my comments weren't intended to offend anyone, I was just stating my opinion, as you were. It just seemed to me when I read your comments, that they were reactionary and slightly emotional. I am all for a healthy debate, but not for an emotional debate. It's been my experience that when someone is emotional, you can never get them to see your point of view. I don't care if someone else agrees with my point of view or not, as long as they can see where I was coming from or what I meant.

As far as the Guro Dan comment, I re-read what I wrote and see where you could have thought what you did. That wasnt my intention. My comment only meant that this is a "Martial Arts Business" and part of the business of it is to generate revenue, however I don't believe that is Guro Dan's only movitvation. That probably isn't even in his top 5 motivating factors for teaching. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Guro Dan and all his instructors, including the ones I have trained under and the ones I don't like.

The thing is, I usually re-read what someone else wrote before I respond, to make sure I didn't misinterprete what they said or meant, and I also usually re-read my comments before I post them. In this case with the Money comment, I didn't realize that it could have easily been misinterpreted. That was my fault for leaving my comment that way, and I take responsiblity for it, because that wasn't my intention.

With that in mind thanks for taking the time to explain where you were coming from. Looking forward to more healthy discussions with you in the future.

[Michael Wright]

That's all cool mate, thanks for taking the time to reply and share your thoughts.

And you're right, I'm an emotional guy. I don't have an online persona, I'm just myself - warts and all )

Good talking to you

[Flaves]

LMAO at the warts comment.

Cool man. Talk to you later I'm sure.

[fenwick99]

As more and more original BL students die or retire from public view,
it will be up to the 4th and 5th gen. students to carry the torch.
Going back to classical wing chun and Wu tai chi to learn the centerline and the jung power, is as legitimate an exercise as I could imagine.
Remember- Yip Man tolerated Lee, he did not teach Lee his best stuff.
Guys like Hawking Cheung and the Wu's
are invaluable teachers.

Last post- I've got too many viruses from this site.
thx, brad