Seeking help from a PFS Instructor!!!!

KenJeet · 08-29-2001, 08:01 PM

I was wondering if someone could help me out. I train under the Inosanto lineage and was wondering what the main difference between Paul Vunak's PFS and the teachings at the Inosanto Academy and the instructors under Guro Dan. I've often heard Guro Dan saying that you can not experience JKD without learning the system to get you there, Jun Fan Gung Fu. I've had his new tape set for a couple of months now and have been able to review all of the different series ie., Loy Da, Jab cross series, etc., that I am learning under my Instructor. He makes it very clear in the tape series that if you are simply combining different systems and putting them into your own personal matrix you could say that you are doing your own personal expression of Jeet Kune Do. However, he adamantly says that if you do not experience the vehicle known as Jun Fan Gung Fu, you are not doing Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do. Now here is the question......I personally own Paul Vunak's series of tapes and notice that he uses a lot of the terminology that Guro Dan uses and does some of the traps and stuff like that. However, I've noticed that his whole teaching is based around intercept or destruct along with straight blast and then end up with Knees, headbutts, and elbows. What I am a little confused about is whether he still teaches the Jun Fan Curriculum and all of its sub-systems. I've seen a rank certificate from Paul Vunak and it says Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do and the Filipino Martial Arts. Now, by the time you achieve rank from Mr. Vunak have you gone over all of Jun Fan and the Inosanto Lacoste method of Filipino Martial Arts? Are you considered an instructor of Filipino Martial Arts? Or are you truly certified in the RAT system or something to that nature?

Holdfast · 08-31-2001, 12:32 PM

Why not jusk ask Paul? I have talked to him on the phone several times and trained with him as well. He is a very open guy.
his number is on his web site.
http://fighting.net/contact.html

Paul Sharp · 08-31-2001, 04:32 PM

Kenjeet,

check out the PFS forum at www.pfs-stx.com

I'm sure the guy's there can answer any questions you might have.

-Paul Sharp

www.straightblastgym.com

KenJeet · 08-31-2001, 05:15 PM

Cool!!! Thank you very much guys.

johnmarkpainter · 07-14-2008, 12:51 PM

Ken,

It is a balancing act.
I think it is good to have it all, but that will take a while.

I trained with an Instructor under Larry Hartsell.
He emphasized a strong base of Jun Fan techniques but with a heavier base in Western Boxing.
THEN he also worked heavily on Crashing and hitting A LOT.

Then I spent of bit of time in a PFS group.
It didn't seem to me that their base was as well-rounded.
More emphasis on Crash and Blast.

Right now I am training with an "Original JKD" Instructor where there is a HEAVY emphasis on Jun Fan GF with very classical Traps as well as learning the Sui Lim Tao form.

In summary...
You could have really tight technique and structure but not have the "Killer Instinct". You could be really fast and blast in swinging but not have good responses to Counters.
You could also try to learn 20 different arts and never be REALLY good at any of them!

jmp

Joe Hubbard · 07-15-2008, 01:14 PM

Hi Paul

That PFS forum link from south Texas doesn't work. Is it still up?

Out

Joe

**Michael Wright** · 07-15-2008, 01:47 PM

Kenjeet,

Your post is kind of all over the place and asks a lot of different questions, if I can try to answer some of them:

What you learn from Paul really depends on how much time you spend with him. A lot of guys fly out and do a couple of days, obviously you can only learn so much. Typically, you will be given the basic RAT Program, depending on your level there will be supplemental training in basic Kali weaponry, some basic BJJ, and some energy drills. That's kind of the PFS core that many people get.

However, if you spend more time with Paul you can go deeper into whatever area interests you. You mention Jun Fan specifically, I have learnt a lot of my Jun Fan from Paul and other PFS people such as Tom Cruse, Ryan Clark and some joker called Mike Brewer. I also learned a lot of my Kali and BJJ from Paul, but that's just cos I stuck around.

It is imptant to remember however that Paul, unlike many people, hasn't tried to be Dan Inosanto. He doesn't try to teach everything that Guro Dan does, he made a decision a long time ago to teach his own simple, stripped down expression of the Inosanto Martial Arts. That is PFS.

I would agree with jmp that many standalone PFS groups, especially those with only a few days training, do lack a solid base. My personal advice is to use PFS as a great supplement to your wider studies, and ensure that you have a solid base in stand up and ground, this base will only make your PFS stronger.

Tant01 · 07-15-2008, 02:10 PM

Gentlemen... This thread was started almost seven years ago...?

**Michael Wright** · 07-15-2008, 02:41 PM

yeah well, I've been busy!

I hadn't noticed, thanks Tant. Ah well hopefully there is something useful in there for someone.

Joe Hubbard · 07-15-2008, 03:13 PM

Ah, no wonder that link doesn't work. I used to enjoy that old PFS talk forum. I think it was a guy called Rene who was operating that one.

Out

Joe

Semper Fi · 07-15-2008, 03:22 PM

Lots of thread necromancy happening around here. =)

chillaplata · 07-16-2008, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

yeah well, I've been busy!

I hadn't noticed, thanks Tant. Ah well hopefully there is something useful in there for someone.

I found it very useful -- it's given me an idea what to expect at Sifu Vunak's seminar in September, which with your encouragement I am planning to attend. Your expert guidance is much appreciated!

**Michael Wright** · 07-16-2008, 08:09 AM

Many thanks sir. I hope you have a great time at Voo's seminar, make sure you come back and tell us all about it. The good, the bad, and the ugly!

Tant01 · 07-16-2008, 09:10 AM

You think if Vunak had a martial art named after him they'd call it vudo?

**Michael Wright** · 07-16-2008, 09:32 AM

I think it would probably be more like FUBAR

08-29-2001, 08:01 PM	#1 (permalink)
KenJeet Novice Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Miami, FL. Posts: 108	Seeking help from a PFS Instructor!!!! I was wondering if someone could help me out. I train under the Inosanto lineage and was wondering what the main difference between Paul Vunak's PFS and the teachings at the Inosanto Academy and the instructors under Guro Dan. I've often heard Guro Dan saying that you can not experience JKD without learning the system to get you there, Jun Fan Gung Fu. I've had his new tape set for a couple of months now and have been able to review all of the different series ie., Loy Da, Jab cross series, etc., that I am learning under my Instructor. He makes it very clear in the tape series that if you are simply combining different systems and putting them into your own personal matrix you could say that you are doing your own personal expression of Jeet Kune Do. However, he adamantly says that if you do not experience the vehicle known as Jun Fan Gung Fu, you are not doing Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do. Now here is the question......I personally own Paul Vunak's series of tapes and notice that he uses a lot of the terminology that Guro Dan uses and does some of the traps and stuff like that. However, I've noticed that his whole teaching is based around intercept or destruct along with straight blast and then end up with Knees, headbutts, and elbows. What I am a little confused about is whether he still teaches the Jun Fan Curriculum and all of its sub-systems. I've seen a rank certificate from Paul Vunak and it says Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do and the Filipino Martial Arts. Now, by the time you achieve rank from Mr. Vunak have you gone over all of Jun Fan and the Inosanto Lacoste method of Filipino Martial Arts? Are you considered an instructor of Filipino Martial Arts? Or are you truly certified in the RAT system or something to that nature?

08-31-2001, 12:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
Holdfast Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Midwest Posts: 72	Why not jusk ask Paul? I have talked to him on the phone several times and trained with him as well. He is a very open guy. his number is on his web site. http://fighting.net/contact.html __________________ "It's all in the reflexes" Jack Burton

08-31-2001, 04:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
Paul Sharp Novice Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Elgin, Il. Posts: 75	Kenjeet, check out the PFS forum at www.pfs-stx.com I'm sure the guy's there can answer any questions you might have. -Paul Sharp www.straightblastgym.com __________________ www.straightblastgymillinois.com Certificates don't count, Performance does.

07-15-2008, 01:14 PM	#6 (permalink)
Joe Hubbard Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: London, England Posts: 75	Hi Paul That PFS forum link from south Texas doesn't work. Is it still up? Out Joe __________________ Aim For Peace, Prepare For War www.functionalfighting.com

07-15-2008, 02:10 PM	#8 (permalink)
Tant01 Humble Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern Ca. USA Posts: 4,819	Gentlemen... This thread was started almost seven years ago...? __________________ "In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur." James Paterson

08-31-2001, 05:15 PM	#4 (permalink)
KenJeet Novice Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Miami, FL. Posts: 108	Cool!!! Thank you very much guys.

07-14-2008, 12:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
johnmarkpainter Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5	Ken, It is a balancing act. I think it is good to have it all, but that will take a while. I trained with an Instructor under Larry Hartsell. He emphasized a strong base of Jun Fan techniques but with a heavier base in Western Boxing. THEN he also worked heavily on Crashing and hitting A LOT. Then I spent of bit of time in a PFS group. It didn't seem to me that their base was as well-rounded. More emphasis on Crash and Blast. Right now I am training with an "Original JKD" Instructor where there is a HEAVY emphasis on Jun Fan GF with very classical Traps as well as learning the Sui Lim Tao form. In summary... You could have really tight technique and structure but not have the "Killer Instinct". You could be really fast and blast in swinging but not have good responses to Counters. You could also try to learn 20 different arts and never be REALLY good at any of them! jmp

07-15-2008, 01:47 PM	#7 (permalink)
Michael Wright Premiere Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 979	Kenjeet, Your post is kind of all over the place and asks a lot of different questions, if I can try to answer some of them: What you learn from Paul really depends on how much time you spend with him. A lot of guys fly out and do a couple of days, obviously you can only learn so much. Typically, you will be given the basic RAT Program, depending on your level there will be supplemental training in basic Kali weaponry, some basic BJJ, and some energy drills. That's kind of the PFS core that many people get. However, if you spend more time with Paul you can go deeper into whatever area interests you. You mention Jun Fan specifically, I have learnt a lot of my Jun Fan from Paul and other PFS people such as Tom Cruse, Ryan Clark and some joker called Mike Brewer. I also learned a lot of my Kali and BJJ from Paul, but that's just cos I stuck around. It is imptant to remember however that Paul, unlike many people, hasn't tried to be Dan Inosanto. He doesn't try to teach everything that Guro Dan does, he made a decision a long time ago to teach his own simple, stripped down expression of the Inosanto Martial Arts. That is PFS. I would agree with jmp that many standalone PFS groups, especially those with only a few days training, do lack a solid base. My personal advice is to use PFS as a great supplement to your wider studies, and ensure that you have a solid base in stand up and ground, this base will only make your PFS stronger.

07-15-2008, 02:41 PM	#9 (permalink)
Michael Wright Premiere Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 979	yeah well, I've been busy! I hadn't noticed, thanks Tant. Ah well hopefully there is something useful in there for someone.

07-15-2008, 03:13 PM	#10 (permalink)
Joe Hubbard Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: London, England Posts: 75	Ah, no wonder that link doesn't work. I used to enjoy that old PFS talk forum. I think it was a guy called Rene who was operating that one. Out Joe __________________ Aim For Peace, Prepare For War www.functionalfighting.com

07-15-2008, 03:22 PM	#11 (permalink)
Semper Fi Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 12	Lots of thread necromancy happening around here. =)

07-16-2008, 08:09 AM	#13 (permalink)
Michael Wright Premiere Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 979	Many thanks sir. I hope you have a great time at Voo's seminar, make sure you come back and tell us all about it. The good, the bad, and the ugly!

07-16-2008, 09:10 AM	#14 (permalink)
Tant01 Humble Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern Ca. USA Posts: 4,819	You think if Vunak had a martial art named after him they'd call it vudo? __________________ "In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur." James Paterson

07-16-2008, 09:32 AM	#15 (permalink)
Michael Wright Premiere Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 979	I think it would probably be more like FUBAR

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